American Amber Ale Recipe critique

[Shanna]

Hi there,

I did the following American Amber Ale recipe for the Wicklow competition and while the beer itself had some technical flaws due to process issues e.g. pitch temp too high and bottle sanitation from cleaning bottles in the dishwater. Since then I have remedied these issues by adding a 2nd immersion chiller that gets my wort to under 20C in about 30 minutes. I have stopped cleaning bottles in the dishwasher and now clean them by hand with Oxy & hot water.

However I felt that the recipe itself could be improved. I would appreciate any feedback or suggestions on how to improve it.

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 23.00 l
Boil Size: 31.04 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 27.04 l
Final Bottling Vol: 23.00 l
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Brewer: Shanna

Equipment:
Efficiency: 73.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.5 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Total Water Needed: 38.81 l

Amt    Name    Type    #    %/IBU
0.50 Items    Campden tablet (Boil 0.0 mins)    Water Agent    11    -

Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients
Amt    Name    Type    #    %/IBU
4.00 kg    Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)    Grain    1    76.0 %
0.50 kg    Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)    Grain    2    9.5 %
0.45 kg    Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    Grain    3    8.6 %
0.20 kg    Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)    Grain    4    3.8 %
0.11 kg    Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)    Grain    5    2.1 %
Mash Steps
Name    Description    Step Temperature    Step Time
Mash In    Add 18.34 l of water at 74.5 C    65.0 C    60 min
Batch sparge with 2 steps (3.70l, 16.77l) of 75.6 C water
Add water to achieve boil volume of 31.04 l
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.043 SG

Boil Ingredients
Amt    Name    Type    #    %/IBU
30.00 g    Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min    Hop    6    26.4 IBUs
25.00 g    Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min    Hop    7    10.9 IBUs
0.50 Items    Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)    Fining    8    -
30.00 g    Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min    Hop    9    6.2 IBUs
20.00 g    Ahtanum [6.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min    Hop    10    0.0 IBUs
0.50 Items    Campden tablet (Boil 0.0 mins)    Water Agent    11    -
Estimated Post Boil Vol: 27.04 l and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.051 SG
Cool and Transfer Wort

Shanna

[nigel_c]

Personally I would sub the chocolate with Amber. I think it gives a lovely toasty crust flavor without adding any roast/chocolate.

I also found taking a few L of your first runnings and reducing them down adds a lovely malty backbone to ambers.
Special B or W is also an option.

Note to self.. Brew more ambers.
Hope it helps.

[Shanna]

Personally I would sub the chocolate with Amber. I think it gives a lovely toasty crust flavor without adding any roast/chocolate.

I also found taking a few L of your first runnings and reducing them down adds a lovely malty backbone to ambers.
Special B or W is also an option.

Note to self.. Brew more ambers.
Hope it helps.

Interesting point about the Amber. Any thoughts on the hops, previous version was not dry hopped & people commented that the beer was not American enough.

Shanna

[molc]

Personally I would sub the chocolate with Amber. I think it gives a lovely toasty crust flavor without adding any roast/chocolate.

I also found taking a few L of your first runnings and reducing them down adds a lovely malty backbone to ambers.
Special B or W is also an option.

Note to self.. Brew more ambers.
Hope it helps.

Interesting point about the Amber. Any thoughts on the hops, previous version was not dry hopped & people commented that the beer was not American enough.

Shanna

Amber is one of those that I keep trying to get right, with improving results at least. Tricky to get the flavour and colours balanced with the american hops, as the piney variety tend to clash.

Firstly, campden in at flame out? Thought you treat the water before mash for chloramine. Wonder how that combines with the hop oils or maybe it's a typo. Maybe I'm wrong?

I recently used caramunich ii in a cal common for a toasty flavour, so will try amber next time. Also special b is great to give dark fruits, but it's very strong. Easier than reducing down a small part of the malt though.

Personally, I'd move the 30 min cascade to 15, add some centennial as well, then push the rest to whirlpool/flame out for aroma. Dry hopping gives a very fresh aroma, but also a little haze, so never sure which is better there. Maybe try dry hopping half the batch for a comparison...

[Bubbles]

0.50 Items    Campden tablet (Boil 0.0 mins)    Water Agent    11    -

Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients
Amt    Name    Type    #    %/IBU
4.00 kg    Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)    Grain    1    76.0 %
0.50 kg    Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)    Grain    2    9.5 %
0.45 kg    Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    Grain    3    8.6 %
0.20 kg    Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)    Grain    4    3.8 %
0.11 kg    Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)    Grain    5    2.1 %
Mash Steps
Name    Description    Step Temperature    Step Time
Mash In    Add 18.34 l of water at 74.5 C    65.0 C    60 min
Batch sparge with 2 steps (3.70l, 16.77l) of 75.6 C water
Add water to achieve boil volume of 31.04 l
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.043 SG

Boil Ingredients
Amt    Name    Type    #    %/IBU
30.00 g    Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min    Hop    6    26.4 IBUs
25.00 g    Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min    Hop    7    10.9 IBUs
0.50 Items    Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)    Fining    8    -
30.00 g    Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min    Hop    9    6.2 IBUs
20.00 g    Ahtanum [6.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min    Hop    10    0.0 IBUs
0.50 Items    Campden tablet (Boil 0.0 mins)    Water Agent    11    -

There's no yeast in your recipe, but I'm guessing some version of Cal ale yeast?

The other main thing that strikes me is that you have over a kilo of crystal malts in there. Why all that CaraPils? If you're using it in order to provide body to the beer, you might consider increasing your mash temperature by a couple of degrees. CaraPils is a good grain to use in clean ales and lagers where you want a bit more body and a nice foamy head. Caramel malts are a no-no for these kinds of beers as they contribute colour and inappropriate flavours. So brewers use dextrin malts like CaraPils instead.

[Shanna]

0.50 Items    Campden tablet (Boil 0.0 mins)    Water Agent    11    -

Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients
Amt    Name    Type    #    %/IBU
4.00 kg    Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)    Grain    1    76.0 %
0.50 kg    Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)    Grain    2    9.5 %
0.45 kg    Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    Grain    3    8.6 %
0.20 kg    Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)    Grain    4    3.8 %
0.11 kg    Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)    Grain    5    2.1 %
Mash Steps
Name    Description    Step Temperature    Step Time
Mash In    Add 18.34 l of water at 74.5 C    65.0 C    60 min
Batch sparge with 2 steps (3.70l, 16.77l) of 75.6 C water
Add water to achieve boil volume of 31.04 l
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.043 SG

Boil Ingredients
Amt    Name    Type    #    %/IBU
30.00 g    Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min    Hop    6    26.4 IBUs
25.00 g    Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min    Hop    7    10.9 IBUs
0.50 Items    Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)    Fining    8    -
30.00 g    Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min    Hop    9    6.2 IBUs
20.00 g    Ahtanum [6.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min    Hop    10    0.0 IBUs
0.50 Items    Campden tablet (Boil 0.0 mins)    Water Agent    11    -

There's no yeast in your recipe, but I'm guessing some version of Cal ale yeast?

The other main thing that strikes me is that you have over a kilo of crystal malts in there. Why all that CaraPils? If you're using it in order to provide body to the beer, you might consider increasing your mash temperature by a couple of degrees. CaraPils is a good grain to use in clean ales and lagers where you want a bit more body and a nice foamy head. Caramel malts are a no-no for these kinds of beers as they contribute colour and inappropriate flavours. So brewers use dextrin malts like CaraPils instead.

Cut and paste error with the yeast. Previously I used US-05 and I was happy enough with it but I would use cal ale yeast also (2 packs of dry yeast or a liquid version). Suggestions from other sources was to use either dextrins and or carapils. Personally I like a nice foamy head ("2015 - BJCP - Appearance: Amber to coppery - brown in color. Moderately large off - white head with good retention."

Read your post a couple of time now and I not 100% sure I fully understand your point here? Is your suggestion to remove the caramel crystal malt except the carapils or remove all of it? It would help clarify if you specified what changes to make to the grain bill? Not disagreeing with you by the way just struggling to understand your suggestion.

Thanks,

Declan

[molc]

Just some references, from Jamil:

The key to my favorite American amber ales is the right percentage of caramel-type malts and a high level of late hopping. Moving hops to later in the boil increases the hop flavor and aroma while keeping the bitterness restrained.

Comparing his base recipe, you have a lot of darker (80L) crystal. He uses crystal 40L instead and no carapils, with a 68C mash.

[Bubbles]

Cut and paste error with the yeast. Previously I used US-05 and I was happy enough with it but I would use cal ale yeast also (2 packs of dry yeast or a liquid version). Suggestions from other sources was to use either dextrins and or carapils. Personally I like a nice foamy head ("2015 - BJCP - Appearance: Amber to coppery - brown in color. Moderately large off - white head with good retention."

Read your post a couple of time now and I not 100% sure I fully understand your point here? Is your suggestion to remove the caramel crystal malt except the carapils or remove all of it? It would help clarify if you specified what changes to make to the grain bill? Not disagreeing with you by the way just struggling to understand your suggestion.

Nope, I didn't say that.. I'm asking why you're putting 10% carapils into the recipe? What is its purpose? CaraPils doesn't just give you a foamy head - it contributes body and in my view, quite a bit of sweetness.

I said that caramel malts were a no-no in the clean ales and lagers I referred to. With these types of beers, brewers use Carapils for body, head retention etc. because they want to avoid caramel flavours.

You can't make an american amber without caramel malts. Well you could, but it wouldn't live up to most people's expectations of the style.

(US-05 is califnornia ale btw, the most common dried form.)

[Shanna]

Cut and paste error with the yeast. Previously I used US-05 and I was happy enough with it but I would use cal ale yeast also (2 packs of dry yeast or a liquid version). Suggestions from other sources was to use either dextrins and or carapils. Personally I like a nice foamy head ("2015 - BJCP - Appearance: Amber to coppery - brown in color. Moderately large off - white head with good retention."

Read your post a couple of time now and I not 100% sure I fully understand your point here? Is your suggestion to remove the caramel crystal malt except the carapils or remove all of it? It would help clarify if you specified what changes to make to the grain bill? Not disagreeing with you by the way just struggling to understand your suggestion.

Nope, I didn't say that.. I'm asking why you're putting 10% carapils into the recipe? What is its purpose? CaraPils doesn't just give you a foamy head - it contributes body and in my view, quite a bit of sweetness.

I said that caramel malts were a no-no in the clean ales and lagers I referred to. With these types of beers, brewers use Carapils for body, head retention etc. because they want to avoid caramel flavours.

You can't make an american amber without caramel malts. Well you could, but it wouldn't live up to most people's expectations of the style.

(US-05 is califnornia ale btw, the most common dried form.)

Noted about the yeast. Like I said I was not sure if I got what you meant. Let me see if I can get this straight then the suggestion is to reduce the amount of carapils as the half kilo is too much due to the fact that it would contribute too much additional sweetness. I would drop the total amount of carapils by 50% to 250 grams and replace the chocolate malt with 250 grams of amber malt. Going to redo the hops also to use citra & simcoe instead of cascade, perle instead of northdown and amarillo instead of ahtanum as I have those hops unused.

Thanks for your help.

Shanna

[Bubbles]

Yes, I'd reduce the CaraPils, I just don't see the need for it in a 1050 beer. But raise your mash temperature to 67 or 68C. You want plenty of body in an American amber.

I'd agree with molc that the crystal malts you're using are pretty dark.

Personally, I'd tread carefully with the amber malts. I think it would give an interesting dimension to an AA, as Nigel suggests, but it can make itself known even in small amounts. But that's just my personal taste.

I don't see any problems with the hop varieties you've chosen, but you need a goodly amount of them, more than you used in your recipe above. And they need to be very fresh in a beer like this.

[pob]

For a foamy head, you could try ~150-200g Torrified Wheat. (It's unmalted & won't add any fermentables)

Maybe drop the CaraPils & mash @ 66/67°C. It looks like the mash @ 65°C would give a slightly lighter body, which is then counteracted by the CaraPils.

[molc]

Watch out with simcoe, as it has a sharp piney, resiny impression in my mind. Might clash with the sweetness of an amber.

[Shanna]

Personally I would sub the chocolate with Amber. I think it gives a lovely toasty crust flavor without adding any roast/chocolate.

I also found taking a few L of your first runnings and reducing them down adds a lovely malty backbone to ambers.
Special B or W is also an option.

Note to self.. Brew more ambers.
Hope it helps.

Interesting point about the Amber. Any thoughts on the hops, previous version was not dry hopped & people commented that the beer was not American enough.

Shanna

Amber is one of those that I keep trying to get right, with improving results at least. Tricky to get the flavour and colours balanced with the american hops, as the piney variety tend to clash.

Firstly, campden in at flame out? Thought you treat the water before mash for chloramine. Wonder how that combines with the hop oils or maybe it's a typo. Maybe I'm wrong?

I recently used caramunich ii in a cal common for a toasty flavour, so will try amber next time. Also special b is great to give dark fruits, but it's very strong. Easier than reducing down a small part of the malt though.

Personally, I'd move the 30 min cascade to 15, add some centennial as well, then push the rest to whirlpool/flame out for aroma. Dry hopping gives a very fresh aroma, but also a little haze, so never sure which is better there. Maybe try dry hopping half the batch for a comparison...

Noted about the caramel will maybe go with some 40 instead of the 120. The camden at flame out is just a quirk of beersmith. I just added it in the recipe to remind me to treat the water before hand as I grind my grain the day before and also fill & treat my water in my HLT.

Shanna

[Shanna]

Yes, I'd reduce the CaraPils, I just don't see the need for it in a 1050 beer. But raise your mash temperature to 67 or 68C. You want plenty of body in an American amber.

I'd agree with molc that the crystal malts you're using are pretty dark.

Personally, I'd tread carefully with the amber malts. I think it would give an interesting dimension to an AA, as Nigel suggests, but it can make itself known even in small amounts. But that's just my personal taste.

I don't see any problems with the hop varieties you've chosen, but you need a goodly amount of them, more than you used in your recipe above. And they need to be very fresh in a beer like this.

I actually missed Molc previous post so dialed back on the 120 and instead replaced it with a batch of 40. Will take your advice and remove the carapils altogether and reduce the amount of amber malt. Will raise the mash temperature up to 67 and pray my temp control is accurate

Thanks again for the feedback.

Shanna

[Shanna]

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 23.00 l
Boil Size: 31.04 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 27.04 l
Final Bottling Vol: 23.00 l
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Brewer: Shanna
Asst Brewer:
Efficiency: 73.00 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:

Prepare for Brewing
Clean and Prepare Brewing Equipment
Total Water Needed: 38.65 l

Water Prep
Amt    Name    Type    #    %/IBU
0.50 Items    Campden tablet (Boil 0.0 mins)    Water Agent    10    -

Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients
Amt    Name    Type    #    %/IBU
4.00 kg    Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)    Grain    1    78.4 %
0.45 kg    Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)    Grain    2    8.8 %
0.40 kg    Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)    Grain    3    7.8 %
0.25 kg    Amber Malt (22.0 SRM)    Grain    4    4.9 %
Mash Steps
Name    Description    Step Temperature    Step Time
Mash In    Add 17.85 l of water at 76.8 C    67.0 C    60 min
Batch sparge with 2 steps (4.03l, 16.77l) of 75.6 C water
Add water to achieve boil volume of 31.04 l
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.042 SG

Boil Ingredients
Amt    Name    Type    #    %/IBU
30.00 g    Perle [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min    Hop    5    25.1 IBUs
13.00 g    Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min    Hop    6    13.6 IBUs
0.50 Items    Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)    Fining    7    -
20.00 g    Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min    Hop    8    0.0 IBUs
10.00 g    Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min    Hop    9    0.0 IBUs

Estimated Post Boil Vol: 27.04 l and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.050 SG
Cool and Transfer Wort
Cool wort to fermentation temperature
Transfer wort to fermenter
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 23.00 l
Pitch Yeast and Measure Gravity and Volume
Fermentation Ingredients
Amt    Name    Type    #    %/IBU
2.0 pkg    Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml]    Yeast    10    -

Measure Actual Original Gravity _______     (Target: 1.050 SG)
Measure Actual Batch Volume _______     (Target: 23.00 l)
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 23.00 l
Fermentation

14 Jun 2015 - Primary Fermentation (4.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
18 Jun 2015 - Secondary Fermentation (10.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
Dry Hop and Bottle/Keg
Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients
Amt    Name    Type    #    %/IBU
50.00 g    Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days    Hop    11    0.0 IBUs