Water report

[LASERBOY147]

Over the last week I've trying to get detailed report of the water quality in Tullamore from various sources in order to be able to treat my water before brewing.
Apparently this is not possible unless I send off a sample of my water supply to an independent laboratory,  according to irish water there's a breakdown of the water report for my area on water .ie which they have said us the full report but it obviously isn't as it only lists ecoli stryptochloridium and other bacteria levels.
So my question  is this: how do I get a full water analysis report and who from?? Ty

[Tom]

I got mine from the old council water department. They're now Irish Water at a local level, but they should have the old water reports. Unless your source has changed, the results will be similar. If you test your alkalinity (and treat), you're most of the way there, anyway.

The report I got from the old council water people was from 2014, and it's pretty much the same as the one I paid £100 for at the end of 2015.

The alkalinity deviates by as much as 50ppm, though, so testing every brew is essential, otherwise you're only making an educated stab-in-the-dark.

Anyway, long story short, a friendly council officer (and they're all friendly) will track something down for you, when they get a chance.

[Will_D]

Just to be clear:

Local aurthority/Irish water analyses are all about "potability" i.e will it kill you!

They analyse for all sorts of bacterial contaminations, Heavy Metals, Nitrates and Nitrites.

pH, Calcium, Magnessium, Sodium, Sulphate, Chloride, total carbonate levels [aka all the ions important to brewers] are not releavant to potability so even though they measure them they tend not to publish that data.

We did do a group buy water analysis last year. Maybe time for another one!

[LASERBOY147]

Thanks. It's  very annoying  that although they have this info they don't give it out without a separate analysis.  The water where I am is very hard so I presume it's good for stouts  and I haven't made any adjustments in 14 all grain brews. I have had off flavours in my beer and also my mash p.h is pot luck but I have just bought mash p.h strips and my plan is to test the p.h when my next mash is stirred in and adjust with lactic acid somehow? Or maybe acid malt ?....or 5.2 stabiliser?....Anyway I'd like to hear any ideas and what main things to be doing to get my p.h to 5.2 ( is 5.2 right even) I really don't know enough but that's my plan  . Also I understand that the  p.h and the hardness are 2 different things so if I was to make (for instance) a pale ale with my very hard water that is probably high alkalinity and definitely smells of chlorides (that I'm ####ING paying for lol!!!) What should I do to adjust when I'm forming my recipe /mashing/sanitisin/bottling ? I realise that's a lot to ask but. Ive got to start findng out some how and theres a lot of info I'm trawling through on the net but it's taking up a load of time watching  vuds and reading articles for hours etc etc. Cheers

[Tom]

Cheapest, non-pH meter way:
Boil your water pre-use. Gets you in the ballpark for pales (but not lagers). Let cool and decant.
Get a salifert Alkalinity test kit, and some CRS (much more accurate, and automatically adds Sulphates and Chlorides)

Always add half a campden tablet to your liquor pre-use to remove any chlorine based compounds

Although Will_D is probably right about the value of the water report, it certainly can't hurt to ask. Mine had enough information. Specifically ask for the mineral content.

As an aside, the person I asked for my water report was called Mr Lake.

[cruiscinlan]

some CRS (much more accurate, and automatically adds Sulphates and Chlorides)

Always add half a campden tablet to your liquor pre-use to remove any chlorine based compounds

Although Will_D is probably right about the value of the water report, it certainly can't hurt to ask. Mine had enough information. Specifically ask for the mineral content.

As an aside, the person I asked for my water report was called Mr Lake.

Forgive my ignorance what is CRS?

I was thinking of going for the Salifert KH/alkalinity test and a separate chloride and sulphate kit from Palintest as salifert don't do one for those compounds.

How would this CRS work with testing other compunds is it a different reagent?

[Will_D]

Forgive my ignorance what is CRS?

It does NOT stand for Cruiscinlan Reducing Stuff

It stands for "Carbonate Reducing Solution" and is a mixture of a couple of food grade acids (iirc: Phosphoric and Sulphuric)

[Tom]

I think it's Hydrochloric and Sulphuric, Will. It imparts sulphates and chlorides, anyway.

CRS turns the carbonates (which causes the alkalinity) into other stuff. If you're measuring the sulphates and chlorides as well, do it after this treatment, and then you can make the other additions accurately. If you want really soft water (as in for lagers etc) don't use CRS, as it adds too many minerals. I think you can use a mixture of acid malt and phosphoric acid for that.

I remember my introduction to brewing water was by Will_D in Dublin, at the start of that BJCP course! I think I even still have the notes.

[LASERBOY147]

Brain = fried 😃

[Damofto]

I came across this Q&A on water treatment that I've found useful. It summarises different water adjustments and the affects on PH, alkalinity etc,

There is a paragraph on CRS as well.

http://londonamateurbrewers.co.uk/2014/03/water-treatment/

[Leann ull]

Anybody with a ticket to Brewcon will have all their water questions answered

[LASERBOY147]

I had a mastwrplan to bring my water analysis print out and hand it up to the lads to school me up on what to do but water.ie are only interested in taking your money and giving you crappy water in return for it. .. yishh  . But I'm slowly working it all out anyway. I tested my water with ph strips other night side by side with bottled water . They were identical at colour lvl . Way over 7.3 which was the max readout on strip. So I've been mashing in with water that's probably way too high. I have significant off flavours in my beers which is also to do with fermentation as I've work to do there too but if I can at least measure the mash ph next go I'll be a step closer and as well as that I went to tescos yesterday to pick up more bottled water and the ph on the back was much lower than the other btld water I picked up so that was very interesting! !!! I think it was 6.2  but at least 1 whole unit lower!!! I've been looking to ss brewtech now for the last couple months and I'm considering buying the 7 gal brewmaster to be completely on top of the fermentation side of things. It looks so fuking shiny 😃😃😃😃😃 lol but it's a good few pennies however the post from the malt miller UK is only 11 pounds. I'll need a pump and temp thingy too . Any thoughts on all that ?

[LASERBOY147]

I've been following all these replies religiously so please continue as I'm starting to think water is in the top 2 things to get sorted (fermentation  no1) . I'm not at the lvl of sulphates iron analysis  etc just , small steps for me only 1yr brewing but it's great advice so thanks a lot so far

[nigel_c]

Water is really the last step you need to get your head around to perfect your brews. There are a lot of other things to get right first. With water the general rule is if it's good enough to drink it's good for brewing. If there is no clorien noticble, good. If so leaving your brewing water overnight can remove it. Evaporates out.
If you know your water is crazy hard you can cut it distilled or RO water. You can do this going by what you know already and not relying on a fancy water report.
Little steps first.
Invest in a ph meter and a bottle of your acid of choise. Lactic or phosphoric for adjusting your mash and sparge water. If your water is 7.odd as you say you may be extracting tannins in your mash when sparging. Dropping the ph to 6.5 (if I remember correctly) will stop this.
You can skip the lot and just get RO water. This is blank water. With soft wear you build up the water to match the style of beer you are brewing.
Lots of options but first of all I would try rule out any other flaws in my brew day and entire setup first.

[DEMPSEY]

First of all PH of drinking water is always around 7.5. If it were lower like 5.2 you would not drink it. Remember that the reason why you want your Mash at around 5.2 is because that's the happiest PH for the enzymes. As you blend the grains with the drinking water the water PH will lower and usually the more darker malts will lower it more. What can prevent the PH lowering fully is carbonates that buffer this happening.