3 stage mains powered RO - worth it?

[braich]

I got one of those tds pen jobies, and get somewhere in the mid teens, which coincides with brun water.
Have only recently started to use beersmith, and found that it was giving  very similar ph and salt additions to brun water. For last brew, i used the viking malt also (free with bulldog mill from homebrewwest!). I have a cheap ph pen, which was giving a low ph reading during the mash (after salt and acid, as per brun Water). I trust in brun water, rather than the ph pen ( possibly one of my worst buys - just dont thrust it, but it puts doubt into my mind)

Ha - yeah I got the viking malt free with the mill too. That was a great deal. My pH meter is reasonable, which makes me question the water rather than my readings, but I probably need to brew again and see if the same thing happens. However, it sounds like your pH readings are going the other direction, which doesn't suggest that the water from your unit has much in the way of bicarbonates. Maybe the purity of the RO water depends on your starting water. Our tapwater here has moderate hardness. I'll probably get the alkalinity test kit and see what it's coming out as.

[Damofto]

I found my ph to be a bit high as well when I started using the RO water first.  Now I add a small bit of acid malt to the grist (max 2%) and it brings it down to the 5.3 or 5.4 range.  Dark beers like Stouts don't need the acid malt addition as the dark malts bring the ph down anyway.  I don't use Bru'n water though I get my Salt additions from Beersmith.

[braich]

I found my ph to be a bit high as well when I started using the RO water first.  Now I add a small bit of acid malt to the grist (max 2%) and it brings it down to the 5.3 or 5.4 range.  Dark beers like Stouts don't need the acid malt addition as the dark malts bring the ph down anyway.  I don't use Bru'n water though I get my Salt additions from Beersmith.

Yeah I guess with trial and error I can get it back to the right range. I usually adjust with lactic acid. Do you find that you need the acid malt adjustment with beers of a moderate colour - ie. an amber ale? I'm brewing an amber with the RO water next and Bru'n water predicts that I will need to add no acid, and even a little baking soda to get my pH in the right range. I'm wondering if I might get away with no baking soda, if the pH is coming in higher than expected with this water.

[molc]

My ambers are coming in spot on with RO, no adjustment. The crystal really seems to bring the ph down.

It all depends on grist and volumes though, so you'll need to figure it out as you go.

Going forward, I'm planning acid malt for pale beers, nothing for ambers or stout.

[braich]

My ambers are coming in spot on with RO, no adjustment. The crystal really seems to bring the ph down.

It all depends on grist and volumes though, so you'll need to figure it out as you go.

Going forward, I'm planning acid malt for pale beers, nothing for ambers or stout.

Cool - that's really helpful. I'll give the amber a bash with no adjustment and if I'm too low I can lash in a little baking soda, though I'm not usually a fan of chasing a given pH on the fly while the mash is going on, as it's easy to overshoot things. It'd be handy if my RO water lined up better with the Bru'n water predictions, but you can't have everything.

[molc]

I adjust the RO with gypsum and calcium chloride in the HLT, then start the mash and check after 10 minutes. Normally I'll add about 3-4ml of 80% lactic acid and then it's perfect.

The great thing about RO is you learn how to adjust and it's consistent and repeatable.

[braich]

I adjust the RO with gypsum and calcium chloride in the HLT, then start the mash and check after 10 minutes. Normally I'll add about 3-4ml of 80% lactic acid and then it's perfect.

The great thing about RO is you learn how to adjust and it's consistent and repeatable.

Sounds good. So I guess I just need to learn the ropes with this water and different grain bills and I'll be laughing.

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Phosphoric acid has less potential taste impact compared to Lactic. If your ph is too high add a small amount and increase the mash time, ie  if you check the ph after 15 min of mash and it's too high add some phosphoric acid and adjust the ph within the desired range, then mash for a further 60 or 90 minutes to allow the enzymes do their work in their ideal ph range.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[braich]

Phosphoric acid has less potential taste impact compared to Lactic. If your ph is too high add a small amount and increase the mash time, ie  if you check the ph after 15 min of mash and it's too high add some phosphoric acid and adjust the ph within the desired range, then mash for a further 60 or 90 minutes to allow the enzymes do their work in their ideal ph range.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Sounds good. I've read you can get away with 1 mL of lactic acid per gallon in terms of taste impact, but some people can be more sensitive to it than others. Phosphoric would be handy alright.

[Damofto]

Yeah I guess with trial and error I can get it back to the right range. I usually adjust with lactic acid. Do you find that you need the acid malt adjustment with beers of a moderate colour - ie. an amber ale? I'm brewing an amber with the RO water next and Bru'n water predicts that I will need to add no acid, and even a little baking soda to get my pH in the right range. I'm wondering if I might get away with no baking soda, if the pH is coming in higher than expected with this water.

Like Molc says I don't think its needed for Amber beers, I've only brewed one of the past few months but the PH was in range without any acid malt

[Will_D]

For the benefit of new brewers reading this thread:

Water chemistry / additions / subtractions should be at the bottom of you "must do better list"

The list is basically:

1. Sanitation Sanitation Sanitation

2. Temperature control of all stages

3. Time control of the short critical stages like mashing/boiling

4. Ingredients management i.e. use Fresh stuff

5. Kegging / Bottling techniques

Once you have got the above under control then by all means invest in RO / water treatment / CRS ( )

HTH

Will

[mr hoppy]

Very true but if your water is <50ppm Ca (like in Cork) you probably want a teaspoon of CaCl or Gypsum for the yeasties.

[Dr. Rudi]

I got one of those tds pen jobies, and get somewhere in the mid teens, which coincides with brun water.
Have only recently started to use beersmith, and found that it was giving  very similar ph and salt additions to brun water. For last brew, i used the viking malt also (free with bulldog mill from homebrewwest!). I have a cheap ph pen, which was giving a low ph reading during the mash (after salt and acid, as per brun Water). I trust in brun water, rather than the ph pen ( possibly one of my worst buys - just dont thrust it, but it puts doubt into my mind)

I'm thinking of investing in a similar RO system - how has it been working for you? I've been trying some pale lagers of late and they seem to be missing crispness (not sure how else to describe it). I have temp control, sanitation, pitch rates etc fairly well down (I think) and I adjust my tap water using Brun Water to work out salt/acid additions for a given recipe. So I was thinking/hoping RO would give some improvement - have you noticed a change in your beer since you switched to RO water?

One thing that puts me off is that I don't brew that often (every other month usually) and so the RO would be left idle for long periods. I'm concerned that the filter would get gunked up and end up needing to be replaced too often. How do you store yours between uses?