Group buys vs members

[Taf]

How about access to say what is now Internal Operations, where policy is formed etc.?

Pay for access to it?

[Eoin]

How about access to say what is now Internal Operations, where policy is formed etc.?

How about voluntary sign-ups to support the club and group buys only for members, make it that simple and also only allow access to certain sections based on membership(tenner)?

I'd not overcomplicate it, and make some things benefits but only for members, it's that simple. This also does not make anything exclusive per se, a membership will get you the same rights as any other member. Non-members can still benefit from the knowledge and will see the benefits of paying a tenner with time.

[kev]

I wouldnt have any issue with people having to pay a tenner to become members and access/priority for group buys etc.

But when you start charging membership, you do bring in added responsibilities. At that stage the club/association or whatever needs to clarify its committee structure - even if its a really simple one. And if collecting money make it so that people know where the money is going etc.

Now thats probably already in place but just to make it more transparent to the likes of me that are on the edges.

[ColMack]

 

How about access to say what is now Internal Operations, where policy is formed etc.?

I think that would have to be a given for members.

NewBier makes some excellent points, geography is definitely going to affect someones ability to get involved and homebrewing in the past was a lonely station if you don't have the likes of Beoir forums.  When I started out people thought I was a bit nuts.  Everyone is going to have different levels of input regardless of what the membership set up is.  I for one simply don't have the time (pesky kids!!) to brew as much as I would like, never mind attend meetings etc.  I would still like to be a member though, for the warm fuzzy feeling. 
It will always be the case, with any organisation/club that there will be a small % of people will do most of the work and without them nothing would happen.

[MrChalky]

After reading through this thread, I thought it might be useful to hear from someone like me with a low post count.

I've been a member on this forum for a while, and I read it regularly, but for various reasons (some of which are shown below), don't post that much
     - I'm relatively new to brewing, and so don't have a huge amount to offer regarding advice
     - I don't particularly like having conversations on open forums where everyone can see and where it will remain till the end of time
     - I'm somewhat shy
     - I don't really have the time


That being said, I do hope to contribute as I learn, and I do have a couple of projects that I hope to document and share., but there will be times where I don't post for an extended period of time, and my post count will always be relatively low.

One of the reasons I like this forum is that everyone's very friendly and open, however, reading some of the suggestions on this thread, I fear there's a danger of creating a clique, and alienating new members, and people (like me) who for whatever reason, don't post much.

Regarding membership fees, group buy fees etc:
If you're going to have a paid membership (which I agree you should) you're going to need to give something in return other than a warm fuzzy feeling for contributing. You need to think about what this should include. Possible returns could be:
- Access to Members only section (what should this contain?)
- Larger Private message storage
- Photo album
- Group buy priority (see below)
- Group buy notifications (perhaps open to members first, and then non members a few days after)

Not becoming a paid member, should not stop you using the forum, asking questions, receiving advice etc. If you get people involved in the community, they're more likely to eventually contribute.

I do not agree with charging a fee to participate in the group buys. My personal opinion on this would they should be open to everyone (maybe though they should be vetted - confirm their mobile no or something - so they don't stiff the club), but paid up members should get priority, and non members should pay a slightly higher price. This would encourage people to become paying members but won't limit the buying power of the group buys by discouraging people to participate.

While I understand that the club needs an income to survive, and I have no problem contributing, a lot of the suggestions here have the club moving toward a more money oriented stance where nothing should be free. This in my opinion, will drive alot of people away, and destroy the spirit of the NHC.

Regarding post counts etc.
Limiting based on that , could again, drive away new people, or people like myself who don' post much.
Perhaps imposing slight limitations, such as posting images, or participation in group buys, for people under a month here, or with less than 20 posts (for example) to vet people or prevent spam, however, this should be waived if they pay for full membership.

This is just my 2c, and I've clearly plagiarised a lot of the ideas already mentioned.

I've probably forgot a few things I wanted to say, and if the above doesn't make sense, it's because I'm in work trying to discretely write that up

[Eoin]

Proposal:

€10 membership. Gets you
1. Access to the private policy-forming area of the forum (currently Internal Operations)
2. Priority over non-members in over-subscribed group buys.

Non-members can access group buys at a cost of 10% or €2 more, whichever is greater.

To become a paid member you must be a forum member for 30 days or more, and have at least 1 post which is not group buy related.

Would the €2 or 10% go to reducing the costs for the members on the same buy or would it be knocked on to the next buy? I think that idea will be an administrative nightmare myself.

[Eoin]

Would the €2 or 10% go to reducing the costs for the members on the same buy or would it be knocked on to the next buy? I think that idea will be an administrative nightmare myself.

Good question! It would go into the club's bank account and be used to pay for something club related, like costs of running the competition etc. I think that would be fair and also the easiest to administer.

That's where the issue becomes a little murky.

[MrChalky]

Would the €2 or 10% go to reducing the costs for the members on the same buy or would it be knocked on to the next buy? I think that idea will be an administrative nightmare myself.

Good question! It would go into the club's bank account and be used to pay for something club related, like costs of running the competition etc. I think that would be fair and also the easiest to administer.

That's where the issue becomes a little murky.

Make it less murky. Make one of the perks of paid membership be that you get to see all the club's finances (simplified, not every single transactions)

[Taf]

Proposal:

€10 membership. Gets you
1. Access to the private policy-forming area of the forum (currently Internal Operations)
2. Priority over non-members in over-subscribed group buys.

Non-members can access group buys at a cost of 10% or €2 more, whichever is greater, which goes to the club.

To become a paid member you must be a forum member for 30 days or more, and have at least 1 post which is not group buy related.

That seems very fair to me.

[Eoin]

I hope you appreciate I was casting no aspersions, just bringing up questions as they arise.

[JimmyM]

Ciderhead is loaded so he would say 20 - I think 10 is the obvious number to start off.

Cheeky bolix, you owe me 11.20, I'll be chasing you for the 20c now

10 for Membership
10 to participate in Group Buys

Haha that told me!!
See you next weekend - I'll have the 20c framed AND I'll buy you a pint
...
I think the general concensus is that we dont want to charge people for the basic function of the site - so if anyone has any fears - I wouldnt worry.
And, we dont want to punish people who are shy or dont have the expertise to offer opinions.

I like Tube's proposal - And then to address the people who mess about (i.e. dont pay on time or dont collect in a timely fashion or dont organise to have it collected in a timely fashion)
- we just need to devise some rules so that they are somewhat black-listed or penalised the next time round - e.g. pushed down the priority list for the next buy. So that they will only get away with it once.

[Eoin]

Ok, but we really didn't discuss the important issue which is how often is is expected that we would abuse Dempsey and The Tubster.

I demand this is discussed!!!!

[newToBrew]

Proposal:

€10 membership. Gets you
1. Access to the private policy-forming area of the forum (currently Internal Operations)
2. Priority over non-members in over-subscribed group buys.

Non-members can access group buys at a cost of 10% or €2 more, whichever is greater, which goes to the club.

To become a paid member you must be a forum member for 30 days or more, and have at least 1 post which is not group buy related.

sounds good - I still think you should consider throwing  a  1 euro facilitators fee for each member  participant and 2 -3 for non members on the Group buys  though
( can't believe I'm trying to push you to take extra money from me  )

I just think it makes sense - you could use it further down the line to buy in a bunch of hops or something and distribute it amongst members at Christmas or Subsidize a Regional club trip ?? - or  have some kinda awards thingy for active members  - u know - most epic Group Buyer of the Year  - the most abuse flung at some one - that kinda jazz

Or just Ask the members - hey - we got X amount over the year - what'll we do with it ?

[Will_D]

Proposal:

€10 membership. Gets you
1. Access to the private policy-forming area of the forum (currently Internal Operations)
2. Priority over non-members in over-subscribed group buys.

Non-members can access group buys at a cost of 10% or €2 more, whichever is greater, which goes to the club.

To become a paid member you must be a forum member for 30 days or more, and have at least 1 post which is not group buy related.

Very good and simple!

Would just suggest:

1. Access to the private policy-forming area of the forum (currently Internal Operations) and also the right to vote for committe member elections and policy decisions at AGMs/EGMs/online polls and the like

[JerryMcC]

Just wanted to say I'm new here, only found the forum recently and only did my first kit brew in December. I haven't seen any group buys or been involved to date in any meetups or given any advise to anyone simply because I don't have the knowledge to do so (yet). So my post count is obviously nil to date. However, I have been reading some areas of the forum to try to pickup hints etc so I am hoping that I will find it to be a good recourse for me in time. For this I would have no objection to paying a small fee.

Likewise if there was a group buy of interest to me, I would have no issue paying a "buy in" fee on top of the group buy cost.

Just my 2c.