Is there a benefit to liquid yeast??

[AdeFlesk]

Another reason why to replace kit yeast with third party is most kits provide you with 5-6gm yeast packets opposed  11-12g  to  Safe04, Nottingham etc.
The origin of the yeast in the kit could change, by using standard yeasts you get to know the different flavours , the temp range they work at and give you a better chance of brewing the same beer twice.
I think the idea of this forum is to share and improve knowledge and learn from each other.

[Ciderhead]

I use liquid yeast, but will get three to four brews out each vial, with washing the yeast after each brew,  this brings the cost down to about 2e a brew. I am enjoying working my way through the White labs catalog, learning about the flavours they produce, flocculation and attenuation.
Remember yeasts impart quite a bit to the flavour profile of your beer and carries out the work of the fermentation while you get to watch the bubbles out of the airlock.
Well worth buying or borrowing the Yeast book  by White & Zainasheff.

But the most important thing if you are going to use dried yeast is to rehydrate it. 
taken from above book
1. warm the dry yeast to room temp
2  In a sanitised container  sterile water 41C ten times the weight of the dried yeast
3 Sprinkle the dry yeast on top of the water avoiding large dry clumbs , let sit for 15 mins then stir
4 Once yeast is reconsituted gently stir once again to form a cream and let sit for 5 minutes.
5 Adjust yeast to within 8c of wort temp
6 Pitch yeast into wort as soon as possible.


This will make sure you have optimal live healthy yeast cells,   over fifty percent death rate can be caused by just sprinkling dried yeast over wort
And of course most important is stay within temp range for the yeast during fermentation to avoid those off flavours .
hope that helps

And some producers on the packet and website say not to rehydrate, always read the label!

[Eoin]

If you have done your job correctly while making your kit you should have a thick layer of foam on top of your kit brew, I always sprinkled onto that and rarely rehydrated. They do say you can kill yeast by throwing it directly into wort, but I reckon that throwing it on top of the bubbles gave it an easier start as it was not directly exposing it to wort, but resting on top of bubbles and rehydrating slower as a result.

[Ciderhead]

If you have done your job correctly while making your kit you should have a thick layer of foam on top of your kit brew, I always sprinkled onto that and rarely rehydrated. They do say you can kill yeast by throwing it directly into wort, but I reckon that throwing it on top of the bubbles gave it an easier start as it was not directly exposing it to wort, but resting on top of bubbles and rehydrating slower as a result.

+1 and none of the messing around

its funny how I spend hours with liquid yeast starters but just want to chuck in dried

[brenmurph]

If you have done your job correctly while making your kit you should have a thick layer of foam on top of your kit brew, I always sprinkled onto that and rarely rehydrated. They do say you can kill yeast by throwing it directly into wort, but I reckon that throwing it on top of the bubbles gave it an easier start as it was not directly exposing it to wort, but resting on top of bubbles and rehydrating slower as a result.

agree the foam will have some  sugar, water, and oxygen...a good recipe for healthy yeast to devellop

[LordEoin]

Why are kit yeasts are always put down as crap?
Is this fact or myth?
I think it is funny as soon as a noob posts about doing their first kit, the experts jump in and say bin the kit yeast.
What are the facts that support this claim?

It's not always the case. For example, the Coopers Irish Stout, Pilsener, English Bitter, European Lager and IPA kits all use great yeast. Either their own in-house yeast or commercial alternatives.
Likewise, many other companies use awesome yeast like in the Brupaks Beers of the world.

Some reasons to change out some kit yeasts:

• The yeast is sometimes selected to be the easiest to brew instead of the most appropriate for the style (eg Coopers Heritage Lager, Australian Pale ALe and Mexican Cerveza all use the same blend of Ale and Lager yeast, Finlandia seem to use the same random strain of Ale yeast for all their beer kits).
• You don't know what kit yeast has been through in its journey from Australia or Finland or wherever it came from.
• Many of the cheapo kits that people buy are out-of-date, and although the yeast is probably fine, why chance it?
• Buying a replacement yeast means that you usually have access to the very clear specification sheets like this one
• Specific yeast = specific outcome. Coopers Wheatbeer kit comes with ale yeast, but changing it to WB06 turns it into a pretty tasty Hefeweissen.
  

Overall, the supplied yeast will give you fine beer, but changing it out can help you make a specific and great beer

But I'll still rarely change it out for liquid yeast because of the cost.

[brenmurph]

I find the foam from one beer makes a great yeast for the next one.

I often brew 3 batches at the weekend. I get the first one goin by using the dry yeast on the frothy foam after aerating the wort prior to pitching, after an hour I use a sterile paddle to mix up the yeast/ foam matrix.

I have yet to fail to have a great active foaming the next morning I presume suggests good conditions and a sign of healthy yeast.
Next day I use 3 soup ladles of the active foamy liquid for my next brew and same for the third if I make one.

I know that using the active (wet) yeast get the wort fermenting reliably quickly and the yeast seems healthy resulting in consistently good beer.

So If I buy a pack of dry yeast I get 3 brews from the same pack by using the newly multiplying fresh yeast from the previous batch.

I believe thats how many commercials still do it...of course it only works when doing batched back to back or a day apart

[Dunkel]

"2  In a sanitised container  sterile water 41C ten times the weight of the dried yeast"

Is that not a bit on the warm side?

[AdeFlesk]

The temperature range of rehydrating yeast is 35 to 41, warmth is critical to help the fragile cell membrane rebuild its self. Lower temps can cause cell material leaching out  if you are concerned contact manufacture to find out ideal temp.

Danstar Nottingham  30 -35C   http://www.danstaryeast.com/sites/default/files/nottingham_datasheet.pdf
Safale S-04     27 +/- 3c              http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_S04.pdf
Safle US-05  27 +/-3                http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf

Notice next stage is leave it sit for fifteen minutes and ensure that the temp is only 8c above the wort temp before adding.
Following this procedure will make sure that you have the maximum amount of live healthy yeast cells and maybe negate the need to buy live yeast.

The reason why most manufactures will sell their product saying rehydration is not necessary is because they know most people will not follow the instructions to the full.

Your beer will ferment if you pitch enough non rehydrated yeast, but why kill half the cells when you have the skills to pitch yeast properly.

Last thing the most important is keep your beer at the correct fermenting temp, happy yeast makes happy beer .

[Will_D]

For example:

A lager or pilsner kit will NOT contain a lager yeast as it is assumed by the kit maker that the punter will not be able to lager the lager/pils at the correct temperature. So they play safe and often use a mix of ale&lager yeasts:

If fermented warm the ale yeasts will ferment as will the lager yeasts but the latter will produce some odd! flavours.

If a kit brewer can lager the ferment then the ale yeast will be totally suppressed below say 16C and the lager yeast will produce a cleaner lager flavour

[LordEoin]

The Coopers European Lager and Pilsener kits both come with a commercial lager yeast, best fermented at 12-14C.

But in general you're right, most 'lager' kits do come with an ale yeast or a blend.

Here's what Muntons have to say about their premium lager kit:
"Hello Eoin, the yeast on the lager kit is a general purpose yeast for both beers and lager when fermented between 18 – 22°C. If we were to use true lager yeast then fermentation would need to be carried out between 12 – 15°C which is beyond most home brewers capabilities. Regards Graham"

[delzep]

Why are kit yeasts are always put down as crap?
Is this fact or myth?
I think it is funny as soon as a noob posts about doing their first kit, the experts jump in and say bin the kit yeast.
What are the facts that support this claim?

It's not always the case. For example, the Coopers Irish Stout, Pilsener, English Bitter, European Lager and IPA kits all use great yeast. Either their own in-house yeast or commercial alternatives.
Likewise, many other companies use awesome yeast like in the Brupaks Beers of the world.

Some reasons to change out some kit yeasts:

• The yeast is sometimes selected to be the easiest to brew instead of the most appropriate for the style (eg Coopers Heritage Lager, Australian Pale ALe and Mexican Cerveza all use the same blend of Ale and Lager yeast, Finlandia seem to use the same random strain of Ale yeast for all their beer kits).
• You don't know what kit yeast has been through in its journey from Australia or Finland or wherever it came from.
• Many of the cheapo kits that people buy are out-of-date, and although the yeast is probably fine, why chance it?
• Buying a replacement yeast means that you usually have access to the very clear specification sheets like this one
• Specific yeast = specific outcome. Coopers Wheatbeer kit comes with ale yeast, but changing it to WB06 turns it into a pretty tasty Hefeweissen.
  

Overall, the supplied yeast will give you fine beer, but changing it out can help you make a specific and great beer

But I'll still rarely change it out for liquid yeast because of the cost.

I think the issue is more the storage of the packed yeast rather than the choice of yeast itself

[brenmurph]

Im guessing they use a mix of ale / lager to give best of both worlds. Ive used the Finlansia premium lager kit yeast and fermented at 10-12 c in my cool hallway in winter ( steady temp) and it fermented out really well so definatly a lager yeast in there. If a homebrewer cant maintain a low temp then the ale will work fine.

Not all lager yeasts throw off flavours in fact Mauribrew lager yeast specifically suggests using their lager yeast at warm temps for ales with normal ale characteristics. Ive used several brews with this method with in my opinion success.

Ill have two of these brews in Lucan meet tonight we can comment further then if any of ye are there

[Pheeel]

I don't bother with dried as I know liquid works well. What happens if my dried doesn't reactivate properly?

Recently I made a stir plate (USB computer fan and superglued a hard drive magnet to it) and create a 2L starter from liquid yeast. I siphon off 1/2L and stick it in the fridge. The other 1.5L goes into the beer. Even with a blow off tube it was incredibly vigorous!

[AdeFlesk]

I guess , me included have side tracked the discussion straying into what is the best yeast and not the pro's and cons of each yeast.

Maybe if we start with a list  and people can add or comment on it

Live yeast
Pro's
Large selection of specialised strains
Large amount of information and style guides
Cost kept down by washing  , better brews on third generation
Each vial has production date to calculate exact amount of viable live cells

Con's
Advanced brewing
Needs a starter unless using two vials
Cost if brewing single beer


Dried Yeast
Pro's
Ease of use,
Longer Shelf life
Less planning , or yeast management

Con's
Less choice of strains


All brewers should keep a packet of dried yeast like safale US-05 in the fridge