How much hops is too much hops?

[Eoin]

Too much hops screw beers up and destroy the subtleties of the malt....there I said it.

I hate the trend (US driven) to add more and more hops until they take your tooth enamel off.

People are losing the appreciation of a good German lager, malt forward and subtle, being described by hop heads as watery piss....because they have no taste buds left from eating hop cones.......

Anyway, I don't do a lot of hops in my brews and hardly ever go over about 30 IBU's depending on style of course, but even my bitters don't go much over the low thirties.

Whatever floats your boat, but don't forget..the hop thing is a fad

[DEMPSEY]

I concur 

[Dr Jacoby]

Too much hops screw beers up and destroy the subtleties of the malt....there I said it.

I'd say "can" screw a beer up. Some beer styles don't require malt subtlety. There are many types of beer

I hate the trend (US driven) to add more and more hops until they take your tooth enamel off.

Adding more hops for the sake of it is a bit silly all right, but the effort to extract maximum flavour and effect from hops has led to some great beers (and some great beer styles, e.g. Double IPAs)

People are losing the appreciation of a good German lager, malt forward and subtle

+1. I love the subtle flavours of a good Alt or a good German lager, but not just the malt subtleties. I also love the refined spiciness of the hops.

because they have no taste buds left from eating hop cones.......

I think it's more of a cultural shift towards what are perceived to be exciting beers.

Anyway, I don't do a lot of hops in my brews and hardly ever go over about 30 IBU's depending on style of course, but even my bitters don't go much over the low thirties.

Personally I would never limit myself in this fashion. I like to brew a wide variety of styles, not just because I like those styles but also because I think it makes me a better brewer.

but don't forget..the hop thing is a fad

You wish 

[Eoin]

I've done High IBU's, hitting 47 or 57 (can't remember) with one APA I did, before I decided I didn't really like the style or the hop schedule and said meh, not again.

I only limit myself because it's what I want to drink of course. My wife likes the heavily hopped stuff. My tastes top out at about the nice balance that is Galway Hooker for example.

[Dr Jacoby]

Yea, Galway Hooker is a good example. I'd say it's actually quite a bitter beer, even though the IBUs are relatively low. Some IPAs I've tried, on the other hand, have been so well balanced that I'm shocked to find out they have massive IBU levels. 

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

I have bittered the crap out of beers when I do no chill, and forgot to take out my flavour hops (which turned them into bitter hops).

The late additions are key (10min - 5min) apparently, but they big one is the dry hopping. Makes a huge difference, but dont leave the hops too long in there before you bottle (or they will escape).

[Greg2013]

If you HAVE to hop the shit out of a beer then something is wrong with the beer,hops can be a great cover up tool for us as home brewers but when a craft brewery start doing it you gotta ask what would the beer be like without so much hops? It is not necessary to maximise out and top out when dealing with hops IMHO(listen to me all expert like).

I do agree that IMHO its largely USA driven"supersize me" attitude thats driving this.

[Dr Jacoby]

If you HAVE to hop the shit out of a beer then something is wrong with the beer

I don't understand your point. If you want a hoppy beer you can include lots of hops. If you don't want a hoppy beer you can hold back on the hops. If you want to adjust the bitterness of a beer after fermentation there are ways and means. But you never HAVE to hop the shit out of a beer. We don't live in Germany. We are bound by no brewing rules 

hops can be a great cover up tool for us as home brewers

If you mean you can use hops to correct your bitterness level or maybe add some more hop flavour or aroma then yea, ok. But I wouldn't call that a cover up tool. It's more akin to correcting your seasoning when cooking.

But if you mean that hops can be used to mask flaws then I think that's pretty strange. That would require the brewer to know in advance that their beer is going to be bad and to take pre-emptive action by adding hops to compensate. But why not try to tackle the expected flaw head on?

but when a craft brewery start doing it you gotta ask what would the beer be like without so much hops?

Apart from the fact that I don't think any craft brewery actually does seek to mask flaws by adding more hops, I don't understand your point. Suppose we came across a really malt forward beer and asked what would the beer be like if the malt additions were toned down? The obvious answer is that it would be a less malty beer. But so what? You can design all kinds of beers. Why should we be so suspicious when a brewer decides to add extra hops or malt or yeast or whatever? Is this not exactly the kind of experimentation and spirit of adventure that makes brewing so much fun?

It is not necessary to maximise out and top out when dealing with hops IMHO(listen to me all expert like).

I completely agree, but this goes for just about any ingredient. It is not strictly necessary to do any of the things that brewers often do but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do those things when we think it is appropriate to do so. The point is not that we HAVE to do things, it's that we WANT to do things.

I do agree that IMHO its largely USA driven"supersize me" attitude thats driving this.

To a large extent yes, and thank god the Americans have this attitude or we might never have seen the level of exciting innovation that has come to characterise the brewing scene in the States. Remember that many similar things were said about those crazy Belgians who pushed yeast, sugars, techniques and general cleanliness ( ) beyond traditional limits. Hurray for those who push the boundaries!

[Metattron]

Really what you are arguing over discussing is a matter of personal preference.  If you don't like lot's of hops, don't buy or brew beers with lots of hops.  No one has a gun to your head.    If you brew a beer to someones recipe and think it's overly bitter look at the recipe and check the ratio of IBU/SG and reduce the IBUs to be comparable with a recipe you like.  You soon learn what you like or don't and can modify recipes in advance.

I agree with the good Dr, I don't think anyone would try to mask a flaw in their beer by adding more hops, why would you brew it in the first place? You'd have to know at boil time it was flawed, and if you were a commercial brewery you would tip a bad batch rather than hurt your reputation. 

For me, I haven't had a beer yet and thought it had too much hops! 

[Greg2013]

To my way of thinking if you are putting in so much hops that its overpowering the malt then what is the point? Beer is malt based after all, you don't need hops to brew beer but you do need malt, therefore IMHO hops should never be overpowering.

As home brewers we often use dry hopping to mask off flavours before bottling or kegging, don't see why craft breweries would not be the same tbh.

If you have to horse in the hops then IMHO that tells me you are covering up a lack lustre beer, if you want a hop bomb where nothing is coming through but hops, then stick them in some boiling water.

The Belgians might have been crazy but all those things you mentioned are NEEDED to brew beer, hops are not.

I am sure there are other ways to improve brewing other than going batshit crazy with hops.

This attitude that appears to be coming from the USA about hopping the hell out of brews remember comes from the land hat gave us Budweiser,Miller etc. At least we had Guinness.

[Greg2013]

Really what you are arguing over discussing is a matter of personal preference.  If you don't like lot's of hops, don't buy or brew beers with lots of hops.  No one has a gun to your head.    If you brew a beer to someones recipe and think it's overly bitter look at the recipe and check the ratio of IBU/SG and reduce the IBUs to be comparable with a recipe you like.  You soon learn what you like or don't and can modify recipes in advance.

Agree 100% with this 

Look i am only a complete beginner so what would i know

[Metattron]

So what you're saying is, you don't like hoppy beers?   

[Shane Phelan]

My generalisation is:

People reared on European beers (Czech, German, Belgian, British) are generally hostile towards the more flamboyant American versions of these styles.

[beerfly]

It comes down to taste.  For lighter clolered beers i like hoppy beers but not ones where the bittering is too strong which is what mostly happens when people go overboard.
But i still like a good malty beer at the same time, and its also possible to go the other way and under hop it

[Dr Jacoby]

Really what you are arguing over discussing is a matter of personal preference.

'Fraid not  We're not arguing whether really hoppy beers are good or bad (at least I'm not). I was discussing Deadman's claim that there is some ulterior motive at work in beers that are highly hopped (i.e. highly hopped beers should be treated suspiciously because they hide some flaw in the underlying beer). This claim is open to dispute and not a matter of personal preference. I think Deadman is wrong and I explained why. Simple