Beer & Health the myths and misconceptions

[brenmurph]

heres the typical graph showing relative risk, you should see as alcohol grams goes up from zero risk drops and at 35 grams alc per day there is still no risk the the risk rises sharply.
this tries to explain how much alc is safe long term. A litre of 3.5% beer poses no long term risk

MAX PROTECTION: RR= 0.81 ALCOHOL INTAKE = 6 gr/day
REVERSION POINT: ALCOHOL INTAKE = 42 gr/day   ( above this, risk increases compared to abstainers)

[Dunkel]

Am I correct in thinking a litre of 5% beer would be about this 42 gram level?

[Eoin]

I see the reasoning forming here "but love, a nutritionist in the club says it's healthy"

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[brenmurph]

500ml of 4.3% beer is 21.5gram alc

500ml of 5% beer is 25 gram alc

its a percentage

[brenmurph]

@ eoin
The facts are that it is healthy.

Imagine that a hard working night shifty worker cant buy a beer on the way home from work either in pub or off licence,

However a schoolkid can stop at the school sweetshop and buy as much sugary junk as they like ( can of coke and 2 sausage rolls for a euro at our local school)

The harm caused by sugar is extraordinary compared to alcohol (diabetes, heart disease, mental and emotional imbalances and on and on) and alcohol hails into insignificance when compared together.

Beer is highly nutritious and is actualy disease preventative which is in fact like a magic pill compared to a large bulk of foods on the supermarket shelves (sugar products, bread,  processed meat and processed wheat products)

[Eoin]

I'm only messing Bren, I'm aware of the benefits.

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[Eoin]

It'd be a case if being careful Shane, I think it's much better if the kids are introduced by Da rather than knacker drinking bad cider. In Germany 16 year olds are allowed to drink beer only and must leave the pub at 12, it's much more civilised.

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[brenmurph]

spain & portugal I think is 16 as well or less.
I was intrduced to beer by me oul lad at about 14...I was only ever allowed have 2 pints in an evening
was homebrewin since about 15 with John Bull & Kwoffit Kits and held a Friday event for the work lads every friday for about 3 years where we drank a couple or rotakegs on a friday btween 10 of us.

i can count on one hand the amount of times Ive been pissed in my life.

I agree shane, introduce kids early dont stigmatise beer to kids do the opposite tell them all about how good it can be.

BTW theres a ton of evidence that low alc 3% beer is now favoured by athletes and works better than water, sports drinks, milk, and home made sports drinks   theres a lot to beer that our nanny state wont tell us :

[Dunkel]

500ml of 4.3% beer is 21.5gram alc

500ml of 5% beer is 25 gram alc

its a percentage

Would it not be a proportion of the alcohol by weight? So a 500ml bottle of 5.0% abv would work out about 20 grams alcohol (abw = approx. 0.8 x abv)?

[Shanna]

Hi guys

Won't  disagree that beer in moderation is good for you as I know don't enough about the state of scientific literature. I am not casting aspersions just have to take your word on it. However I know from anecdotal evidence that alcohol in all forms e.g wine, beer, spirits etc is  the most widely abused "legal" drug. The addictive nature of alcohol represents a real problem for people at all levels of society. Have discussed with others (brother and his colleagues  work in mental health profession) and I have seen first hand cases where people (at work especially) with mental health issues whether it be from extreme stress, depression,  manic depression etc, self medicate using alcohol. I would describe them as functioning alcoholics who have an underlying health issue that they don't get addressed.

The problem with pushing beer as a good thing and promoting its benefits is that it is hard to maintain the balance of moderation when the more you consume the harder it is to maintain moderation.  Judgement, impulse control, aggression and a whole host of other negative behaviour and emotions start to kick in.

I think our attitude to drink is particularly immature in that we think that binge drinking (don't get me wrong i am not preaching as I have done the sessions) is ok and not something to be discouraged.  Some one told me recently that they were not an alcoholic because they only drank in pubs and not at home. There logic was there kids never saw them drinking but did see them roll home pissed. The fact that they skulled 10 pints during each pub visit was lost on them.

Anyway hope this is not considered off topic.

Shanna

[brenmurph]

500ml of 4.3% beer is 21.5gram alc

500ml of 5% beer is 25 gram alc

its a percentage

Would it not be a proportion of the alcohol by weight? So a 500ml bottle of 5.0% abv would work out about 20 grams alcohol (abw = approx. 0.8 x abv)?

WE SHOULD DEFINE THIS if we can in a simple way, are we talking about  a kg of wort of 1060 gravity weighing 1.060kg?  Isnt a ml of water the same as a gram of water and the density of wort or finished beer is slightly heavier if it finishes at 1.010 and therefore causes difficulty in calculating alcohol content? Is weight of finished beer not very similar to water + / - 5% because not many beers finish at 1.020?
someone please clarify in laymans terms for everyones benefit.

[brenmurph]

Shanna, heavy stuff and no simple answer.
There is an alcohol problem bus as per previous post it hails into insignificance when we consider in comparison to other health issues driven by sugar. Diabetes, heart disease and mental and emotional imbalances driven by shit food and a 50% sugar nutrient deficient diets in many cases.

Alcohol ( or beer) is as common as the white sliced pan and its a small minority that makes the headlines re alcohol harm. Yes alcohol harm is an issue but in context of overall drink consumption the vast majority of people dont smash up shop windows and beat up their wives after a couple of pints.

Not an easy debate but worth debating... so roll it on, thats what this thread is about

[LordEoin]

I think that this conversation needs some facts from credible sources like the NHS, the CDC, Alcohol Ireland, the World Health Organization, WebMD, ignoring guesswork and opinion about mentality, social standing, poor wartime diets, etc

Alcohol increases the risk of developing more than 60 diseases and medical conditions, even at low levels of consumptionsource

It results in 2.5 million deaths each year. Alcohol is the world's third largest risk factor for premature mortality, disability and loss of health; it is the leading risk factor in the Western Pacific and the Americas and the second largest in Europe. source

Youth who use alcohol before age 15 are five times more likely to become alcohol dependent than adults who begin drinking at age 21source

Different drinks are not less harmful based on their alcohol concentration, just the amount of alcohol you consume.
A longneck bottle of beer, glass of wine or shot of spirits will all have about the same amount of alcohol and they'll all have pretty much the same afect on your body (ignoring other ingredients) source

The recommended daily limit for men is about a pint of 5%-6% ABV beer source

Alcohol is processed in the body very similarly to the way fat is processed, and alcohol provides almost as many calories source

Moderate amounts of alcohol makes your blood sugars rise. The carbohydrate content in beer and sweet wine will also raise blood sugars.  Alcohol can also raise blood pressure and triglyceride levels. source.

But light beers can contain as little as half the calories and a quarter the carbohydtares (based on Coors light vs heineken or bud) while moving to light cider can reduce your calorie intake to about 75% and the carbohydrate intake to about 17% (based on bulmers vs bulmers light) source

I've no doubt that there are plenty of good things in beer, but a healthy diet of varied and fresh food will provide them more effectively.
I can't guarantee all the sources are 100% correct, however it seems like a more solid basis than opinion and guesswork

Throwaway nonchalant comments like 'Moderate drinking could be 5 litres a day, who knows', claims that unfiltered ale is 'a superfood' and advice like 'introduce kids early' aren't just outrageous but downright misleading and dangerous, especially coming from a certified nutritionist.

[Eoin]

I think calling the opinion of a qualified nutritionist guesswork is downright insulting myself.

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[RichC]

I think calling the opinion of a qualified nutritionist guesswork is downright insulting myself.

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I dont think thats what LoreEoin did. He was referring to the thread in general and references to socioeconomic and other factors that make if virtually impossible to draw rock solid conclusions from the historical evidence that we have.
I've heard Patrick Holford speaking out against alcohol before and hes a well published nutritionist.
@Bren which athletes are we talking about here?
'BTW theres a ton of evidence that low alc 3% beer is now favoured by athletes and works better than water, sports drinks, milk, and home made sports drinks'
I find it hard to believe that any serious athlete would drink beer any more than rarely or use it as a nutritional supplement. I would be more inclined to believe that theyd be complete tea totallers.(I only know 1 successful pro athlete personally and he doesnt drink).
I think theres a lot of sense in LordEoins post