Starsan vs Chemipro Oxi

[Greg2013]

Uninfected batches are anecdotal evidence not definitve proof that anything is or is not a sanitizer,equipment is not sanitized by W5 it is cleaned by W5 so sorry m8 but you are wrong there,and as for no one being able to help they could if they did a little research before commenting on such. Anybody that says W5 is a sanitizer is wrong it's that simple and that includes people that write brewing books, and i f people use it as such then they are wrong too. I don't need to look for scientific paper because i actually bothered my behind to check the definition of "sanitize" and W5 and its ilk do not fit that definition.

Even Iodine is not a sanitizer if it's diluted too much, and just to prove i looked it up Iodine efficacy is most efficient at a ratio of 12.5ppm(as far as i remember), if Iodine was diluted to say 5ppm then i would no longer be a sanitizer,same with bleach,and the list goes on.

Hoss is a murican expression meaning buddy/m8/pal,meant to show i have no hard feelings and actually did not want a war of words but i hate it when people just throw around terms like sanitizer without looking into if it is or now.Home brew shops and makers of home brew products are the biggest culprits of this because they know 99% wont bother to check.

The marketing of home brew products is such that people take the easy option and trust what they are being told that an item is what it says on the tin,not so in every case.

[Covey]

what definition of the word Sanitize  are you using (EPA,IMB,FDA,USP,Pheur,WHO,ISO),please elaborate so we can establish facts.

[pob]

I hate to be the fly in the ointment again but neither Chempro (afaik)or Lidl W5 are sanitizers,they are briliant oxygen based cleaners but that is a they are is cleaners,i use the Lidl stuff myself. Starsan is a sanitizer but is not a cleaner.If you use chempro or Lidl oxy you still should use an actual sanitizer.

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/chemipro-oxi-no-rinse-cleaner-sterilizer-1-kg-1628-p.asp

Despite the misleading title if you read the text you will see that Chempro is indeed a "cleaner" not a "sanitizer". To sanitize something you have to actually kill bacteria etc.,neither Lidl oxy or Chempro do this,Starsan does.

In my opinion, percarbonate-based cleaners are the best choice for equipment cleaning, and Straight-A from Logic Inc., and Powder Brewery Wash (PBW) from Five Star Chemicals, Inc. are the best of them. These products combine sodium metasilicate with the percarbonate in a stable form which increases its effectivity and prevents the corrosion of metals like copper and aluminum that strong alkaline solutions can cause.

Now it does both. Depending on how soiled the equipment is use it once to de-soil and once more to sanitize. Then rinse (i rinse with cold water then hot).The only non rinse solution is vaporised H202. If you have something dripping in starsan in contact with beer of course it will contaminate it, but to what discernible level. The next time the people doing the off flavors as part of the judging they could spike some beer with it.

From Five Star Chemicals, makers of PBW:

"Cleaning Really Does Matter

As all Home Brewers know, many things that go into making great beer, including ingredients, styles, and methods. If you don't properly clean and sanitize your equipment.......

ALL BETS ARE OFF!!!!

Five Star Rules of Cleaning and Sanitizing

- You can only sanitize clean equipment.

- Dirty equipment will always contain bacteria.

- Cleaners ARE NOT sanitizers. Whether alkali or acid, cleaners should not be used as the final procedure.

- Sanitizers ARE NOT cleaners. Sanitizing is the final procedure after cleaning or on clean equipment just prior to brewing.

- Cleaning and sanitizing can be improved by time and temperature. Allowing longer contact time and/or increasing the temperature of solutions will improve the results.

- Do not overuse chemicals. "More is not better". It normally requires more water and/or higher temperatures to rinse, and may leave an unwanted residue or just cake on to the equipment. Follow the directions.

- Cleaners and sanitizers must come in contact with 100% of the soils. This means that all blind areas, such as man-way lips or racking arms, must be hand cleaned and sanitized, use of spray balls can be very effective.

- Never add water to chemicals. Always blend cleaning or sanitizing chemicals into water."


So basically Clean first (PBW, W5), rinse and Sanitise (StarSan) afterwards, before use.

[Qs]

Yeah its the 5 star rules I follow. PBW and Oxi to clean, Starsan to sanitise. Starsan goes a very long way if you use it properly so why not clean & sanitise. Its best for the beer.

[Covey]

OK W5 contains >30% Sodium percarbonate. so 30g of SPC per 100g.
100g of pure Sodium percarbonate liberates 30g of H2O2

300g of W5 in a litre (of water@20C) gives you a 3% solutions of H2O2

This solution can sanitize a plastic/steel (not aluminium) surface to acceptable levels (to produce beer which is free from contamination)

So you end up with about a 3% Hydrogen peroxide solutiuon. Thats gud enough for me maybe not you

[pob]

Something amiss there, 300g is 1/3 of a tub, that amount in a litre of water would be like a paste.

I'm sure it would sanitise according to your calculations, but a very impractical and costly method to use. You're probably going to use a ton of water to rinse that concentration off aswell.

A more cost efficient way might be to use it only as a cleaner, you'd only use less than a scoop per litre, then use StarSan at 1.5ml per litre to sanitise, between them costing less than 10c rather than 80c per clean.

Not neccessarily better, but a lot cheaper to do the same job.

[hassettbrew]

Is Milton any use as a sanitiser?

[googoomuck]

I use Milton for sterilizing my demis. I had a box of tablets left over from the young lads bottles, never had a problem with it. Think there is/was a link on here somewhere to the Milton web page where it lists homebrew as a purpose for it.