Author Topic: Brewing alcohol free  (Read 1219 times)

Will_D

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7194
  • NHC Chemistry Geek
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2019, 10:44:53 AM »
So, Liffey brewers get hold of some samples, brew up a few test beers, publish their findings and recommendations. Then we hold a LA competition open to all full members: any style and maybe even a cider or two, just using the WHC yeast.

Think of the PR potential.

"No longer will home brew knock the socks of you, the NHC of Ireland are now brewing great tasting Low Alcohol beers.

Drink Responsibly with the NHC"
Remember: The Nationals are just round the corner - time to get brewing

DEMPSEY

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5210
  • Master of coin
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2019, 11:30:56 AM »
We might have to add "Home of the sobers" to our title along with our "home of the sours". O0
Dei miscendarum discipulus
Forgive us our Hangovers as we forgive those who hangover against us

DEMPSEY

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5210
  • Master of coin
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2019, 08:30:44 AM »
http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/cold-extraction-of-malt-components-and-their-use-in-brewing-applications/ I bit of interesting reading here. This is about cold extraction but in it there is a bit about how this process can help produce a low alcohol beer,

Quote
Low Alcohol Beer
The wort obtained from cold extracted mashing yields a wort that appears to have a disproportionately large quantity of the proteins that are responsible for good head retention and mouthfeel. Employing a cold extraction method to a standard 1.050 gravity recipe will result in a 1- 1.5% ABV beer with a full mouthfeel and good head retention.
When formulating low alcohol beer by this method one should consider that there is very little sweetness due to low residual dextrin content, and that it will be necessary to lower the level of hop bittering to achieve balance.
Dei miscendarum discipulus
Forgive us our Hangovers as we forgive those who hangover against us

molc

  • Posts: 3239
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2019, 08:49:54 AM »
Yup that's on the to brew list now. Great find there Dempsey.
Fermenting: IPA, Lambic, Mead
Conditioning: Lambic, Cider, RIS, Ole Ale, Saison
On Tap: IPA, Helles, Best Bitter

DEMPSEY

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5210
  • Master of coin
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2019, 09:06:04 AM »
Cold extraction of pale malts can be used to produce a wort with nearly all amino acids and enzymes that would be available in a traditional mash process, but with only ΒΌ of the gravity
So you appear to get the required goody but a lot less gravity

Cold extraction can be used to formulate a beer where as little as 15% of the gravity comes from malt and 85% from adjunct (sugars) resulting in a beer with similar perception without the use of special enzymes.

Given that 15% of the gravity is from the malts then adjusting the adjunct additions is the next step.
Dei miscendarum discipulus
Forgive us our Hangovers as we forgive those who hangover against us

DEMPSEY

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5210
  • Master of coin
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2019, 09:07:22 AM »
Quote
Low Alcohol Beer
The wort obtained from cold extracted mashing yields a wort that appears to have a disproportionately large quantity of the proteins that are responsible for good head retention and mouthfeel. Employing a cold extraction method to a standard 1.050 gravity recipe will result in a 1- 1.5% ABV beer with a full mouthfeel and good head retention.
When formulating low alcohol beer by this method one should consider that there is very little sweetness due to low residual dextrin content, and that it will be necessary to lower the level of hop bittering to achieve balance.

Given this to be the case how best to add the hops is the question.
Dei miscendarum discipulus
Forgive us our Hangovers as we forgive those who hangover against us

DEMPSEY

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5210
  • Master of coin
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2019, 02:43:51 PM »
From what I gather you want to mash at 10C for 60 to 90 minutes. A normal 1050 sg recipe should produce a 1010 /1015 sg from this. You would then need to filter it well as the debris will burn in the wort when you boil it. As you bring up the temperature some of the enzymes will kick in and start converting starch and as we don't want this it makes sense to get up to boil quickly.
Dei miscendarum discipulus
Forgive us our Hangovers as we forgive those who hangover against us

delzep

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2836
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2019, 02:53:03 PM »
So the wort will be loaded with starch?

DEMPSEY

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5210
  • Master of coin
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2019, 05:11:32 PM »
http://jonscrazybrews.blogspot.com/2017/03/non-enzymatic-mashing-aka-cold-mashing.html
Interesting approach here. The issue of his second hot mash at 60 minutes will bring more fermentables so I think that controlling both the time and temperature here would be a good place to control the final ABV.
Dei miscendarum discipulus
Forgive us our Hangovers as we forgive those who hangover against us

DEMPSEY

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5210
  • Master of coin
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2019, 03:00:38 PM »
So the wort will be loaded with starch?
No the starch is mostly left behind in the grain. The leftover grain can be used in another hoy mash brew as an adjunct.
Dei miscendarum discipulus
Forgive us our Hangovers as we forgive those who hangover against us

phoenix

  • Posts: 226
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2019, 06:28:36 PM »
I am thinking about releasing a 'non alcoholic' yeast . There is a pair of them that do the job that I have been looking at.

Basically they can ferment fructose, glucose and sucrose but not the other constituents of the wort. If you start with a 1.023 gravity it should finish with about .5% ABV which falls technically into the non alcoholic category. Do you think this is something homebrewers would be interested in/?
I'd be all over this if you release it. Keep us posted, let me know if you need testers, cheers
Ciaran

Will_D

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7194
  • NHC Chemistry Geek
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2019, 10:14:03 AM »
Any updates on this thread?
Remember: The Nationals are just round the corner - time to get brewing

DEMPSEY

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5210
  • Master of coin
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2019, 11:43:32 AM »
Updates ;), given that a cold mash doe not bring much dextrins and so you end up with a dry tasting beer it seem logical to promote Alpha amylase. As the temperature rises from the cold mash temperature we could bring it to 74C to help with Alpha and not Beta amylase. A second help may be to adjust PH higher for this as Beta likes 4.0 to 5.5 PH where as Alpha likes 6.7 to 7.0PH. :-\. by flaring PH I wonder would this be of benefit.
Dei miscendarum discipulus
Forgive us our Hangovers as we forgive those who hangover against us

Will_D

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7194
  • NHC Chemistry Geek
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2019, 10:21:53 AM »
I am thinking about releasing a 'non alcoholic' yeast . There is a pair of them that do the job that I have been looking at.

Basically they can ferment fructose, glucose and sucrose but not the other constituents of the wort. If you start with a 1.023 gravity it should finish with about .5% ABV which falls technically into the non alcoholic category. Do you think this is something homebrewers would be interested in/?
Many thanks for the great talk at Brewcon.

I am sure a lot of us would be interested in a LA yeast being available.

Any updates?
Remember: The Nationals are just round the corner - time to get brewing

DEMPSEY

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5210
  • Master of coin
Re: Brewing alcohol free
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2019, 04:44:03 PM »
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jib.465
A bit of heavy reading here but still an interesting approach all the same.
Dei miscendarum discipulus
Forgive us our Hangovers as we forgive those who hangover against us