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WLP820 starter mishap

Started by Ed, February 11, 2016, 08:44:13 pm

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Ed

Venturing into liquid yeast for the first time, was going to try an Augustiner bräu oktoberfest inspired brew...

As i mentioned, first time using liquid yeast; knew I needed a starter so had prepared the starter wort, followed the instructions on the vial, let it come up to room temp, shook it really well to make sure i was leaving nothing behind, opened it up and... it fizzed out like a warm bottle of coke and I lost at least half of the contents onto the kitchen countertop.

Mega sour.

So, I pitched what was left in. My plan is to do 3 or 4 step-ups to try grow it up to where it should be, but my I've a couple of questions \ challenges.

1 - my flask it only 1L, so the starters are small - is this a real issue?
2 - will having the starters at 19\20 deg impact the yeast? will it stress them and leave me with a yeast that will put off flavours in the beer?
3 - Am i just better off buying a new vial and starting again?

The vial was created mid december if that's of any consequence.... any advice would be appreciated!

Pheeel

Haven't checked this on a yeast calc but a brand new vial best case could give you 100 billion cells. You lost half so that's 50 billion. With its age and the fact you won't ever get 100 you're prob looking at 25-30.
You'll prob need about 200 depending on your OG. I'm pretty sure you'll need a starter much larger than 1L
Issues with your membership? PM me!

Simon_


1 - my flask it only 1L, so the starters are small - is this a real issue?

Yeah its a bit small for a lager starter. Have you a demi John or something you can step it up further in?


2 - will having the starters at 19\20 deg impact the yeast? will it stress them and leave me with a yeast that will put off flavours in the beer?

No. Just slowly bring the starter down to pitching temp before pitching

3 - Am i just better off buying a new vial and starting again?

Should be fine if you step it up patiently by starting small. If you see it good activity, you should be fine. If you're concerned about it just buy another vial

Ed

Cheers for the replies lads, yes I've a few demijohns - I'll do my next step-up into one; would 3L be a good size?

nigel_c

Be careful with Demi's and hot liquids.

DarraghKS

Use brewers friend yeast pitch calculator. It will work out how many viable cells you need via a step up method and how best to achieve this. It'll also give you what quantities of dme to add to make said starters. Do realise that 820 is a lager yeast and will need twice the quantity of cells than that of an ale. I was going to use that yeast to make an oktoberfest myself with an OG of 1.060 @ 40 litres volume. Brewers friend gave me a value of 880 billion cells required, which equated to a 5.5 litre starter. Not easily feasible. Even stepping it up required huge stepping starters >2 litres. Goodluck.
Brewing - Irish Red Ale 4.7%
Fermenting -
Conditioning - Oktoberfest 5.5%
Drinking - New World IPA 7.0%


Ed

Quote from: DarraghKS on February 12, 2016, 10:39:39 am
Do realise that 820 is a lager yeast and will need twice the quantity of cells than that of an ale.


I do indeed, the calc tells me I need just shy of 400 million, so even with half of the original, my 1L starter into a 2L starter should give me the desired pitch rate (Pro Brewer 1.5).

5.5 Litres worth of a starter is pretty substantial alright i suppose, but I guess you'd only have to do it once.

Ed

Quote from: nigel_c on February 12, 2016, 10:47:31 am
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

The calculator I use.


Thanks Nigel, i used http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/, it seems a little more suited for my need here (like the ability to change the amount of viable cells given my spillage...)

someone else may prefer it though!

DarraghKS

Glad it helped. Goodluck with it!
Brewing - Irish Red Ale 4.7%
Fermenting -
Conditioning - Oktoberfest 5.5%
Drinking - New World IPA 7.0%

Ed

necessity is the mother of invention - the shape \ thickness of the base in the demijohn meant my DIY stir plate wouldn't work, had to remodel it.... used thin plywood christmas decoration blanks to make corners for on top of the fan.


nigel_c

If you plan on using liquid yeast on a regular basis I would highly suggest investing in some larger glassware. 1L are handy enough but can be a nightmare to work with once you start boiling in them as they can easily boil over. A 1L starter in a 3 or even 5L flask is a lot more managible.
I have the full family set up to 5L and don't know how I managed before getting them.


Ed

Yes, i think a larger flask will be called for alright; 1 litre isn't really much use for growing decent starters, especially for lagers.