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Lager Fermentation

Started by Qs, July 29, 2015, 11:51:01 am

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mr hoppy

Thanks, plenty to think about there.


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Leann ull

May 07, 2016, 10:51:30 am #16 Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 11:01:47 am by CH
I've tried 16 straight down to 2 and also in my early brews just leaving at 10, just not the same, beer was ok just not what really works for me now.
Early days it was adjust stc half a degree each time,which was a pain, now Brewpi or flashed stc courtesy of Prof Davis.
I read somewhere that fermentation in lagers can continue down to 5 or 6 degrees.
It's a bit like my ales I find the sweet spot for consumption is somewhere between 2 and 4 months after pitching, with lagers I find it's 4-6 months.

Motorbikeman

Quote from: CH on May 07, 2016, 12:34:00 am
My schedule
10-12 for 3-4 weeks ferment subject to gravity will determine if I go for 4
2 days diacetyl rest at 16
Then over 30 days down to 2
At 2 for min 4 weeks, preferably 10-12.


Do you rack before or after diacetyl rest? 

Pheeel

Quote from: Motorbikeman on May 11, 2016, 03:03:31 pm
Do you rack before or after diacetyl rest? 


I follow this:
http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

After the d-rest and lagering
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garciaBernal

I just did the brulosophy lager method. Used Hessian Pils yeast, fermented at 12 for 4 days or until just under 50% attenuation then ramped up to 20C for D rest of 3 days at which point I was also at my full attenuation then ramp down to 0C for a 2 week chill. That was a month ago, had the first one last night and it was perfect. Lunacy waiting 4-6 months for a lager.
"If you do not enjoy my beer, then I say it is a pity for you!" Armand DeBelder-Drie Fonteinen

Pheeel

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Dr Jacoby

I usually go low and slow too. Pitch at 6C or 7C, let rise to 9C or 10C until fermentation is complete. I don't bother with a diacetyl rest as it's usually not necessary if you brew everything cleanly and choose the right strains. Then I'll lower by a degree a day to -1C or -2C and condition for at least 4 weeks. My sweet spot is 6 weeks after pitching - that's when the fresh cracker/bready flavour is at it's peak.

Recently I brewed a low abv lager for a mate using dried yeast. I pitched at 15C and fermented at 12C for two weeks. I conditioned for only 3 weeks and the resulting beer was amazingly clean (but quite boring).

The point is, there are probably many ways to skin the cat. A lot depends on choice of yeast and personal preferences. Lots of homebrew lager I taste doesn't have the lovely bready character that you should be getting from pilsner malt - most lagers are supposed to be clean but not flavourless! Work out a procedure for achieving that with a given strain and you'll be laughing. 
Every little helps

Motorbikeman

Quote from: Pheeel on May 11, 2016, 03:09:29 pm
Quote from: Motorbikeman on May 11, 2016, 03:03:31 pm
Do you rack before or after diacetyl rest? 


I follow this:
http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

After the d-rest and lagering

I have a 1.051 lager in the fridge for 13 days now.  sitting at 12 degrees,   
Would I be able to ramp down using that method   even if I have gone passed 50% attenuation?    Or does the schedule have to be followed religiously..   

Leann ull

Quote from: garciaBernal on May 11, 2016, 03:12:55 pm
Lunacy waiting 4-6 months for a lager.


Oh balls your right! gold at the nationals last year and gold cat 4 and 5 this year I must be doing something wrong :P
You are right if you want something in a hurry fast track it, I love reading the guys on here doing turbo cider each to his own just not my thing.


@Dr J, diacetyl rest I do is just a safety net and probably not needed at all but with time invested in each batch I'm not brave enough to skip it, besides the whole thing is automated with Brewpi in any case ;D
I see on the attached Helles I did a 3 day rest.

garciaBernal

May 11, 2016, 04:43:57 pm #24 Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 04:59:00 pm by garciaBernal
I respect your patience waiting that long so fair play. I've no interest in investing that amount of time in a beer just to win a medal but congratulations. I disagree that it's fast tracking just as I do agree that your way has benefits. There is a good list of Irish craft lagers at the minute and all are extremely well made in my opinion but how long on average do you reckon they sit on them from mash-in to bottle on the shelf? It aint 4-6 months.
"If you do not enjoy my beer, then I say it is a pity for you!" Armand DeBelder-Drie Fonteinen

Leann ull

Quote from: garciaBernal on May 11, 2016, 04:43:57 pm
There is a good list of Irish craft lagers at the minute and all are extremely well made in my opinion

Name one  ;)

garciaBernal

Troubles Passionfruit. O'Haras Helles, St. Mels Helles, Metalmans Equinox and on and on!! There's arguments for and against depending what your end goal is I guess.
"If you do not enjoy my beer, then I say it is a pity for you!" Armand DeBelder-Drie Fonteinen

Leann ull

Quote from: garciaBernal on May 11, 2016, 05:04:34 pm
Troubles Passionfruit. O'Haras Helles, St. Mels Helles, Metalmans Equinox and on and on!! There's arguments for and against depending what your end goal is I guess.


I have to disagree with you on all those even Troubles Passionfruit that I was drinking at the AGM.
They are all easy drinkers but I keep comparing these to Weihenstephaner and for balance I have not tasted anything in this market that comes close yet.
You hit the nail on the head though even Weihenstephaners beer is cellar matured for 30 days so I guess that's the difference.

molc

Well here's the challenge then. Take one of those gold medal lagers and brew it both ways. It would be a great experiment and my gut says the results could be an eye opener.
Even fermenting quick, a good lager still needs a nice long cold conditioning of at least 30 days I feel. From what I can see though, doing a quick ferment should still make a like for like result.

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Fermenting: IPA, Lambic, Mead
Conditioning: Lambic, Cider, RIS, Ole Ale, Saison
On Tap: IPA, Helles, Best Bitter

Dr Jacoby

Quote from: CH on May 11, 2016, 04:25:02 pm
@Dr J, diacetyl rest I do is just a safety net and probably not needed at all but with time invested in each batch I'm not brave enough to skip it, besides the whole thing is automated with Brewpi in any case ;D
I see on the attached Helles I did a 3 day rest.


I hear you on the diacetyl rest. It can't hurt.

The fermentation profile you use is a tricky one to master. Fair fucks to you. It's the classic German lager technique.  All rests on keeping the yeast active which can be difficult. I've done it a couple of times myself but gave it up because it's a lot of work. I'll be hooking up a brewpi controller this summer though so might give it another whirl then.
Every little helps