National Homebrew Club Ireland

Hi folks,

Next meet on Thur 30th July. See further details here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,8012.0.html). Please sign up below if attending.

Cheers,
Bubbles.

1. Bubbles  - Saison, Cider

1. Bubbles  - Saison, Cider
2. Shanna - American IPA & Munich "Schlecht" la
ger

1. Bubbles  - Saison, Cider
2. Shanna - American IPA & Munich "Schlecht" lager
3. Molc - Sweet Porter, Cider

Isn't "schlecht" german for "shite"??

Quote from: Bubbles on July 03, 2015, 12:40:52 PM
Isn't "schlecht" german for "shite"??

Scheiße  ;)

Just checked.. According to google translate it means "bad"! :)

Quote from: Bubbles on July 03, 2015, 02:28:15 PM
Just checked.. According to google translate it means "bad"! :)

Continuing on my long tradition of beers with both questionable names & quality :) In my defense it's a lager that I did with a decoction mash.

Shanna

Decoction. Aren't you a glutton for punishment. Did you just do a single boil or go the whole hog on it?

Quote from: molc on July 03, 2015, 08:58:25 PM
Decoction. Aren't you a glutton for punishment. Did you just do a single boil or go the whole hog on it?

All three boils using a ham stock pot to decoct & boil. All was good till I started to sparge & it stuck. Was reduced to bailing with saucepan & colander not a pretty sight :( I toyed with the idea of chucking it but while it is remarkably dark it is clear if that makes any kind of sense. The decoction itself was not terribly difficult & it was cool to see the decocted portion hitting the mash temperature. Just a huge sense of anti climax when the sparge stuck. I get the impression the beer is lacking in body & it's not terribly malty, despite the 90% Munich Malt bill. Lesson learned again 're my grain mill, am keeping a suplly of oat hulls on standby for future beers.

Shanna

That's a crazy amount of effort to go to in order to produce a beer. If I was you i'd chuck that mill in the bin and invest in something decent. How many batches has it ruined now?

Quote from: Bubbles on July 04, 2015, 01:51:46 PM
That's a crazy amount of effort to go to in order to produce a beer. If I was you i'd chuck that mill in the bin and invest in something decent. How many batches has it ruined now?

Two & counting but it's a convenient excuse :)  It cost me close to €100 so I might try persevere. To be honest begining to wonder is it also a problem with my false bottom.

Shanna

Some day you're doing a crush, maybe one of us should bring over one of our mills and do the crush to compare? A 100 roller mill should never have a crush issue...

Quote from: molc on July 05, 2015, 10:23:37 AM
Some day you're doing a crush, maybe one of us should bring over one of our mills and do the crush to compare? A 100 roller mill should never have a crush issue...

Good idea if someone would oblige would be interested to see the difference. It could be my drill is not up to scratch either as sometimes I get through it without any problems.

Shanna

Touch of the "pineapple chunk syndrome" there  :( try and focus of brewing a couple of good beers and getting it right rather than frustrating yourself again, this time with a really tricky process that has the potential for a car crash, especially now you have temp control.
I am a reasonably proficient brewer and I wouldn't touch decoction with yours never mind mine, for two reasons, ends don't justify the means and potential for it becoming a pigs arse  :-[
Maybe someday when I'm bored...

I know you have gap right as you used my feeler gauges, I did get them back? I use credit cards now in any case, mostly hers.

Quote from: Ciderhead on July 05, 2015, 11:41:37 PM
Touch of the "pineapple chunk syndrome" there  :( try and focus of brewing a couple of good beers and getting it right rather than frustrating yourself again, this time with a really tricky process that has the potential for a car crash, especially now you have temp control.
I am a reasonably proficient brewer and I wouldn't touch decoction with yours never mind mine, for two reasons, ends don't justify the means and potential for it becoming a pigs arse  :-[
Maybe someday when I'm bored...

I know you have gap right as you used my feeler gauges, I did get them back? I use credit cards now in any case, mostly hers.

Could be a case of running before crawling no mind walking but I was curious to what it was like. Not sure if the question 're the feelers was for me as far as I remember they were returned (certainly I don't have them). As for pineapple chunk syndrome can't stand fruit beers!!!

Would like to think I can keep pushing myself & learn from the mistakes if possible.
Shanna

Ah the itch to try new and exciting things, without mastering the last thing we did. The constant curse of the homebrewer. :) Got to agree decoction is probably a step too far when messing with your new herms though :)

That said, I have no beer to show for the last 3 months as I've been redoing the same recipe trying to get it right, messing with pitching rates and stuck fermentations. (It's just pils, sugar, saaz and yeast - how hard could it be! - famous last words) Everything in balance and remember, it's meant to be fun too! :D

Quote from: molc on July 06, 2015, 12:10:04 AM
Ah the itch to try new and exciting things, without mastering the last thing we did. The constant curse of the homebrewer. :) Got to agree decoction is probably a step too far when messing with your new herms though :)

That said, I have no beer to show for the last 3 months as I've been redoing the same recipe trying to get it right, messing with pitching rates and stuck fermentations. (It's just pils, sugar, saaz and yeast - how hard could it be! - famous last words) Everything in balance and remember, it's meant to be fun too! :D

Decoction was without herms so technically it was using exactly the same kit :) Going to try the herms on the next (4th generation Weiss bier). Personally I find getting stuff consistent is the biggest challenge as I sometimes think everything went perfect on brew day only to find some other issue that was not a problem has crept in. Got to agree with both of you (CH & molc) that going forward will start to focus more on the quality + simplicity to iron out the problems.

Shanna

Quote from: Shanna on July 06, 2015, 07:25:44 AM
Decoction was without herms so technically it was using exactly the same kit :) Going to try the herms on the next (4th generation Weiss bier). Personally I find getting stuff consistent is the biggest challenge as I sometimes think everything went perfect on brew day only to find some other issue that was not a problem has crept in. Got to agree with both of you (CH & molc) that going forward will start to focus more on the quality + simplicity to iron out the problems.

Shanna, yourself, CH and molc have all hit the nail on the head there as regards your brewing. You're blazing a trail with advanced techniques like HERMS and decoction but you're losing sight of the basics - fermentation & sanitisation. You've been having a lot of problems with your beers for longer than I can remember, and the feedback you've been getting from the meets has always been the same - hot alcohols, various infections. These are problems that happen on the "cold side" - yeast health, pitching rates, pitching & fermentation temperatures, ensuring your equipment, bottles/kegs and brewing space are free from nasties etc. None of these issues can be fixed by jumping head first into advanced mashing techniques. I also think you should try to simplify your brewing, not make it more complicated. Otherwise it's just time and money down the drain.

At this stage I'd be looking at examining every part of the process and investing in some new equipment and ingredients to try to get to the bottom of it.

Quote from: Bubbles on July 06, 2015, 02:21:59 PM

Quote from: Shanna on July 06, 2015, 07:25:44 AM
Decoction was without herms so technically it was using exactly the same kit :) Going to try the herms on the next (4th generation Weiss bier). Personally I find getting stuff consistent is the biggest challenge as I sometimes think everything went perfect on brew day only to find some other issue that was not a problem has crept in. Got to agree with both of you (CH & molc) that going forward will start to focus more on the quality + simplicity to iron out the problems.

Shanna, yourself, CH and molc have all hit the nail on the head there as regards your brewing. You're blazing a trail with advanced techniques like HERMS and decoction but you're losing sight of the basics - fermentation & sanitisation. You've been having a lot of problems with your beers for longer than I can remember, and the feedback you've been getting from the meets has always been the same - hot alcohols, various infections. These are problems that happen on the "cold side" - yeast health, pitching rates, pitching & fermentation temperatures, ensuring your equipment, bottles/kegs and brewing space are free from nasties etc. None of these issues can be fixed by jumping head first into advanced mashing techniques. I also think you should try to simplify your brewing, not make it more complicated. Otherwise it's just time and money down the drain.

At this stage I'd be looking at examining every part of the process and investing in some new equipment and ingredients to try to get to the bottom of it.

Back to the drawing board me thinks ;-) In my defense me, I thought I had basics ironed out. Problems seem to occur with if & when I change things to reduce time to brew, means there is always something else different that can have an impact. Point taken though, so will endeavour to repeat the process till I am happy that I am getting it consistent before adding something new.

Shanna

Ahhhhhhhh just went down to shed had a leak on a liquid disconnect. Hadn't tightened the barb properly, the beer seeped out must have been over a few days most of an Irish gone. Lesson learned .

Ensuring sanitation and preventing infections from creeping into your beer is as basic as it gets and has to the top priority of any brewer. Until you have that and your fermentation sorted out, everything else is just distracting you and adding complexity to your brewing.

Sanatition is one of those things I just kinda assumed takes care of itself once you have a good process. Clean like a mofo and sanatise all on the cold side.
Yeast for me is the single most important thing people neglect when improving their craft. It makes such a difference to pitch the right amount and control the fermentation

Quote from: Bubbles on July 06, 2015, 10:14:43 PM
Ensuring sanitation and preventing infections from creeping into your beer is as basic as it gets and has to the top priority of any brewer. Until you have that and your fermentation sorted out, everything else is just distracting you and adding complexity to your brewing.

I clean everything fermenters with vwp and sterilise with star San and so it's not like I am not applying best principles,practices. Granted I think I have had issues with bottling recently due to a switch to use a bottle tree add on that uses a reservoir of star San to squirt the star San into the bottles. While it is quick I was begining to think it was reusing the star San too much for my liking. I also suspect that some of the bottles I have are infected with wild yeast & that coupled with this recycled starsan is contributing to occassion gushers & problem bottles. I put most of the bottles through 65C cycle before bottling but maybe some of the older ones need to get chucked. I have had one beer with a definite infection (acetobacter in Belgian golden ale) so I am not exactly typhoid Shanna just yet. I can't explain that one since I have not had anything since then. I suspect that my son & his friends might have been stirring that beer athough I can't be 100% sure. I should have fermentation temperature sorted out also with a temperature controlled fridge. I take everything said on board and value and appreciate the advice from you all.

My general experience is that at least one thing goes awry each & every brew day despite preparing several days in advance & using check lists of prior problems. Sometimes the problems are of my own making & sometimes they are equipment failures such as leaking tap, kettle element burning or pump failing. I am trying to keep a backup of most parts I am using to help avoid this. Will definitely be updating my brewing notes to put additional emphasis on the need for greater attention to yeast, sanitation. and temp control.

Shanna

I use one of those squirted things on the bottling tree and it seems to be doing a good job for me. I aslo keep my starsan mix for about 6 months. The last one was even starting to go a weird brown colour before I ditched it but the ph was fine and no infections occurred.

You mention a 65C cycle. Is that the dishwasher? There's a lot of food particles in there that can get into your bottle if you use one to clean.I always wonder about your bottling environment though. If your doing it out in the garage, it's possible that all those spores you mentioned before are getting into the mix perhaps...

Quote from: molc on July 06, 2015, 11:19:12 PM
I use one of those squirted things on the bottling tree and it seems to be doing a good job for me. I aslo keep my starsan mix for about 6 months. The last one was even starting to go a weird brown colour before I ditched it but the oh was fine and no infections occurred.

You mention a 65C cycle. Is that the dishwasher? There's a lot of food particles in there that can get into your bottle if you use one to clean.I always wonder about your bottling environment though. If your doing it out in the garage, it's possible that all those spores you mentioned before are getting into the mix perhaps...

I bottle in the kitchen, after taking bottles out of dish washer to make sure that there is no residue in the bottles. I then use starsan as described. I am not 100% convinced that the dishwasher is at fault as I have been using that for over 2 years. More likely old bottles stored in shed are picking up spores and might not be getting cleaned properly by the dish  without a problem till I started using that washer addition. I did have issues with insufficient quantity of yeast with some previous fermentation & that is something I will remedy going forward.

Shanna

Quote from: Shanna on July 06, 2015, 11:00:17 PM
I have had one beer with a definite infection (acetobacter in Belgian golden ale) so I am not exactly typhoid Shanna just yet. I can't explain that one since I have not had anything since then.

Unfortunately, I've tasted several beers from you that I suspected were infected. The Irish Red you did for the GCB comp last year was so infected it was undrinkable. A cider you brought to the meet a couple of months ago was definitely infected also. And if I taste a beer at a SD meet that I think is infected, I always say it to the brewer. I think part of the problem here is that you are not tasting serious flaws and infections in your own beers.

The GCB amber is a perfect example. Three people at the meet told you it tasted solventy, but you dismissed that out of hand because you had fermented it under temperature control. This flaw was then confirmed by the judges at the comp. It's probably more worrying that you couldn't taste it yourself. How about tasting your own beers alongside a commercial example or two? Might be helpful.

Quote from: Shanna on July 06, 2015, 11:00:17 PM
My general experience is that at least one thing goes awry each & every brew day despite preparing several days in advance & using check lists of prior problems. Sometimes the problems are of my own making & sometimes they are equipment failures such as leaking tap, kettle element burning or pump failing. I am trying to keep a backup of most parts I am using to help avoid this. Will definitely be updating my brewing notes to put additional emphasis on the need for greater attention to yeast, sanitation. and temp control.

Notes are the best way to go. Keeping track of everything. Dissect every stage of your process - replace equipment where necessary, calibrate thermometers, take temp and gravity readings, use fresh everything (especially vials of yeast and hops) and above all, simplify your process! Messing about with HERMS and decoction is pointless until you can ferment a simple ale.

Apologies if this all this sounds a little harsh, it's well intended advice.  :-\

Molc has a great point about your brewing shed. The other evening at the barrel fill, when I wasn't being eaten alive by bugs, I was looking at all the crud in that roof you want to get replaced. It looks pretty grim, I can't imagine it's a sanitary place to be preparing beer.

I'm actually a fan of HERMS because it simplifies my process. Everything was coming out too dry before I started using it, as I couldn't hold mash temp. Now it's just a case of turn on the pump, heat the sparge to target temp +2 and let it rip. Decoction is just asking for pain in your life though. There be dragons over there :D

I agree on the fermenting simple ale though. It's a great way to dial everything in and is no less delicious. I've messed with a few high gravity beers in the last while and haven't been happy with the results, until perhaps maybe the most recent one. You have to have your pitching and oxygenation spot on to get a good result as you push the ABV.

Feck thats coming across as putting the boot it.

Its actually quite hard to make really shit beer, there I've said it but some of us seem to be naturally gifted at it.
Basic brewing only comes down to 2 things fermentation temperature and hygiene thats all.
If you can keep you temp +/- 4 degrees you have half a chance.

Unless you clean like the nuns properly you are wasting your time, fuck this shit with bleach and vinegar as well I don't care what anybody says, use pbw or W5 if you want to be tight about it and God gave us starsan for a reason.



   

Didn't intend to put boot in!! :)

Shanna is trying to solve these recurring issues he's been having. No point in agreeing that there's only been one infected beer out of his brewery, when it's not the case. That's helping nobody.

At the risk of repeating it one more time in this thread.. Sanitation and fermentation are the first things to get right. After that you're away..

Making a fresh batch of starsan each time you brew or bottle is important. Also ensuring you're making it at the right concentration.

Funnily enough, I reuse my starsan for about 5 batches, though I make it with RO and ph test before every use. Also have a spray bottle for tools and use around the kitchen

I'm pretty paranoid about my starsan and how cloudy and smelly it gets after it's been hanging around for a long time. But then, I don't use RO water to make it up. It costs buttons and gives me piece of mind that there's no nasties on my gear.

Quote from: Bubbles on July 07, 2015, 09:10:52 AM

Quote from: Shanna on July 06, 2015, 11:00:17 PM
I have had one beer with a definite infection (acetobacter in Belgian golden ale) so I am not exactly typhoid Shanna just yet. I can't explain that one since I have not had anything since then.

Unfortunately, I've tasted several beers from you that I suspected were infected. The Irish Red you did for the GCB comp last year was so infected it was undrinkable. A cider you brought to the meet a couple of months ago was definitely infected also. And if I taste a beer at a SD meet that I think is infected, I always say it to the brewer. I think part of the problem here is that you are not tasting serious flaws and infections in your own beers.

The GCB amber is a perfect example. Three people at the meet told you it tasted solventy, but you dismissed that out of hand because you had fermented it under temperature control. This flaw was then confirmed by the judges at the comp. It's probably more worrying that you couldn't taste it yourself. How about tasting your own beers alongside a commercial example or two? Might be helpful.

Quote from: Shanna on July 06, 2015, 11:00:17 PM
My general experience is that at least one thing goes awry each & every brew day despite preparing several days in advance & using check lists of prior problems. Sometimes the problems are of my own making & sometimes they are equipment failures such as leaking tap, kettle element burning or pump failing. I am trying to keep a backup of most parts I am using to help avoid this. Will definitely be updating my brewing notes to put additional emphasis on the need for greater attention to yeast, sanitation. and temp control.

Notes are the best way to go. Keeping track of everything. Dissect every stage of your process - replace equipment where necessary, calibrate thermometers, take temp and gravity readings, use fresh everything (especially vials of yeast and hops) and above all, simplify your process! Messing about with HERMS and decoction is pointless until you can ferment a simple ale.

Apologies if this all this sounds a little harsh, it's well intended advice.  :-\

Molc has a great point about your brewing shed. The other evening at the barrel fill, when I wasn't being eaten alive by bugs, I was looking at all the crud in that roof you want to get replaced. It looks pretty grim, I can't imagine it's a sanitary place to be preparing beer.

I appreciate the sentiment 're the beers but I would say that the beer in particular you refrenced were left in my shed under a galvanised roof where the temp had hit close to 40 & had turned as a result. Same beers stored in a fridge did not exhibit a problem. I suspect I might need to sometimes taste one or two of the beers before bringing to the meets but often they are new & I don't have an opportunity. I understand the shed is a bit crusty but you might remember I have been trying to get the roof replaced for some time now hence the urgency to get the barrel emptied. I take your point 're the solvent beer in that I could not necessarily taste it but having a shit pallet is not necessarily the source of shit beer :) My reaction to it not being temperature related was because I fermented it in a temperature controlled fridge. I was dismissive of the explanation & not that it had a solvent after taste. I will be replacing the shed roof soon so that should help improve my brewing environment. Appreciate the candour & don't worry CH I have thick skin.

Shanna

It's fair to say that no beer is going to be tasting it's best after sitting in a hot shed for a long time.

Regarding the solvent flavour, could it be that you're over oxygenating the wort? I'm not sure if over oxygenation is related to fusel production, but you might have a google and see. The temp controlled fridge is fair enough, but is there any possibility that you pitched too warm? Fusels are much more likely to be created at the start of fermentation. Other than that, you're looking at underpitching of yeast being the problem.

If you agree the shed might be the problem, would you consider boiling a smaller batch indoors? At least you would be able to cross it off the list if it turns out okay. I have a 20 litre stockpot that you can borrow.

I'd knock the dishwasher on the head also - I can't imagine much water can get up into the bottles, leaving crud still in them. I'd err on the side of caution and buy a couple of boxes of bottles in alpack. That would be another thing you could tick off the list.

Quote from: Bubbles on July 07, 2015, 08:50:03 PM
It's fair to say that no beer is going to be tasting it's best after sitting in a hot shed for a long time.

Regarding the solvent flavour, could it be that you're over oxygenating the wort? I'm not sure if over oxygenation is related to fusel production, but you might have a google and see. The temp controlled fridge is fair enough, but is there any possibility that you pitched too warm? Fusels are much more likely to be created at the start of fermentation. Other than that, you're looking at underpitching of yeast being the problem.

If you agree the shed might be the problem, would you consider boiling a smaller batch indoors? At least you would be able to cross it off the list if it turns out okay. I have a 20 litre stockpot that you can borrow.
.
I'd knock the dishwasher on the head also - I can't imagine much water can get up into the bottles, leaving crud still in them. I'd err on the side of caution and buy a couple of boxes of bottles in alpack. That would be another thing you could tick off the list.

The bottles go in the top shelf of the dishwasher and get a load of water in them & the temp is 65C for a two hour plus cycle. I have a stock pot that I occassionally use for extract brewing so need to borrow but thanks for the offer. I have already checked & chucked a bucket full of bottles & also a load of old hops. Pitching temp is about 20-22C then in to a temp controlled fridge. I find it very difficult to get it below that temperature with the water supply I have. I recently added a 2nd chiller & plan to start using them both in the boiler going forward. I was experimenting with using the 1st inline with the 2nd where the first was placed in an ice bath but it does not make a huge difference. I am going to try using them both together going forward. From what I have read the yeast stress is a cause of solvent flavours & also poor temperature control. Byo article here references too much O2 as a source of solvent flavours. See

http://byo.com/grains/item/2836-high-alcohol-beers-mr-wizard

I know from previous beers that I was getting about 80% plus efficiency from setup that was always over & above the 70% I had in beer Smith. Its only in the last two beers (larger & American Ipa) that I did that I upped the efficiency & dialled down the recipe & have hit the expectant numbers. I honestly thought the solvent in the American Amber I did was due to too high alcohol due to it being over 7% prior to bottling. Next beer I am planning is another American IPA from a kit that I am due from a raffle prize. Will brew it on the hob , bottle as normal but dial back the O2. If I still get problems its likely the bottle sanitation. If not then it's probably the overall shed environment.

Once again thanks for the constructive feedback.

Shanna

I've had one batch go solventy from an underpitch before so it's def something to watch. Like yourself, it happened as I was dialling in my all grain mashing and I went way over the og. Nowadays I keep sparging until I hit my target and watch the ph to make sure I'm not over extracting.

For cooling, I get to 17-20 from the immersion cooler and then pop it into the fermentation fridge, only pitching when it hits the temp I want. It can sit for a few hours before pitching without much danger from everything I've read and that's much better than pitching warm.

Turning into an interesting thread here. Good to compare notes.

Quote from: molc on July 07, 2015, 10:34:12 PM
I've had one batch go solventy from an underpitch before so it's def something to watch. Like yourself, it happened as I was dialling in my all grain mashing and I went way over the og. Nowadays I keep sparging until I hit my target and watch the ph to make sure I'm not over extracting.

For cooling, I get to 17-20 from the immersion cooler and then pop it into the fermentation fridge, only pitching when it hits the temp I want. It can sit for a few hours before pitching without much danger from everything I've read and that's much better than pitching warm.

Turning into an interesting thread here. Good to compare notes.

As I brew late I honestly have neither the time nor the patients to wait for the fridge to drop the temp. Been toying with the idea of getting a stainless steel cannister that I can sanitize & fill with ice. The idea would be to add it to the boiler right at the end to get the temperature below 20. Unfortunately have not found anything suitable yet. if the 2 chillers don't do it then I might try get something custom made up.

Shanna

Or go straight to counterflow with an ice bath cooling the water. That will certainly drop the temp and also it's faster with less stuff to put in your brewpot.
Edit: I recently got Gordon Strings new book and he goes through his process step by step with detail on why he does each one. It might be a good read for you, as it addresses a lot of the points you're bringing up and seems like a good starting point if you're trying to fix problems. Reading it has totally changed my ideas on how to chill wort for instance, as now I'm going to try to disturb the wort as little as possible to settle out the hops as well as reduce the number of items that come into contact with it before it gets to the fermentor.

Quote from: Shanna on July 07, 2015, 11:18:54 PM
As I brew late I honestly have neither the time nor the patients to wait for the fridge to drop the temp.

Just thinking out loud, but this could be the reason why you're possibly pitching your yeast too warm and end up withsolvent flavours in your beer. Patience is everything in brewing.

Quote from: Shanna on July 07, 2015, 11:18:54 PMBeen toying with the idea of getting a stainless steel cannister that I can sanitize & fill with ice. The idea would be to add it to the boiler right at the end to get the temperature below 20.

This makes your brewing process even more complex, and introduces yet another possible source of infection into your beer - one more thing to sanitise.

Quote from: Bubbles on July 08, 2015, 09:25:16 AM

Quote from: Shanna on July 07, 2015, 11:18:54 PM
As I brew late I honestly have neither the time nor the patients to wait for the fridge to drop the temp.

Just thinking out loud, but this could be the reason why you're possibly pitching your yeast too warm and end up withsolvent flavours in your beer. Patience is everything in brewing.

Quote from: Shanna on July 07, 2015, 11:18:54 PMBeen toying with the idea of getting a stainless steel cannister that I can sanitize & fill with ice. The idea would be to add it to the boiler right at the end to get the temperature below 20.

This makes your brewing process even more complex, and introduces yet another possible source of infection into your beer - one more thing to sanitise.

Patients is a virtue but unfortunately it takes time :) Pitching slightly warm is definitely a strong possibility &  temperature of water for cooling continues to be a problem that I am actively trying to sort out. Molc suggestion is simple/effective way to me to the cooler temp. Might as well let the fridge do the work. Personally like to start/finish something in one go because when trying to switch I tend to forget steps or make a balls of things :) Thanks again.

Shanna

Very sensible advice from young molc there.

I'd also advise making a list of process improvements before you start your next brew, so that you can attempt to nail the issue in one go. Then maybe a checklist for when you're actually brewing the beer. Then don't even think about scratching your arse until you consult the checklist.

If you want to post the list, people might be able to make suggestions.

Right, here's a starter for you..

In advance
Source a tried and trusted recipe of a simple, moderate gravity ale (1.040 - 1.050) (Jamil Zainasheff, Graham Wheeler etc.)
Calibrate ONE thermometer and use it throughout your brew
Source clean, preferably new, bottles
Purchase fresh vial of yeast
Purchase fresh hops
Make yeast starter, allowing sufficient time to do its thing on the stir plate. Monitor temperature before pitching and especially during fermentation on the stir plate. Measure OG & FG of starter.

Brew Day
Wort chiller in 15 mins before end of boil
Cover wort while it is cooling to minimize airborne nasties from getting in
Take temperature of wort before pitching yeast. 18C for American ale yeast, 18-20C for English/Belgian strains

Fermentation
Monitor temp during fermentation

Bottling
Make fresh batch of starsan and sanitise bottles. (I immerse all my bottles in batches for 30 secs, recommended by the owner of Five Star Chemicals in an interview with Basic Brewing Radio)
Boil priming solution for 10 mins
Drain bottles on sanitised rack

Quote from: Bubbles on July 08, 2015, 01:47:45 PM
Right, here's a starter for you..

In advance
Source a tried and trusted recipe of a simple, moderate gravity ale (1.040 - 1.050) (Jamil Zainasheff, Graham Wheeler etc.)
Calibrate ONE thermometer and use it throughout your brew
Source clean, preferably new, bottles
Purchase fresh vial of yeast
Purchase fresh hops
Make yeast starter, allowing sufficient time to do its thing on the stir plate. Monitor temperature before pitching and especially during fermentation on the stir plate. Measure OG & FG of starter.

Brew Day
Wort chiller in 15 mins before end of boil
Cover wort while it is cooling to minimize airborne nasties from getting in
Take temperature of wort before pitching yeast. 18C for American ale yeast, 18-20C for English/Belgian strains

Fermentation
Monitor temp during fermentation

Bottling
Make fresh batch of starsan and sanitise bottles. (I immerse all my bottles in batches for 30 secs, recommended by the owner of Five Star Chemicals in an interview with Basic Brewing Radio)
Boil priming solution for 10 mins
Drain bottles on sanitised rack

Have a checklist already that includes 90% of what you listed. Will post before next brew. One question how do you clean your bottles and do you clean them in one go.

Shanna

Quote from: Bubbles on July 08, 2015, 01:47:45 PM
Right, here's a starter for you..

In advance
Make yeast starter, allowing sufficient time to do its thing on the stir plate. Monitor temperature before pitching and especially during fermentation on the stir plate. Measure OG & FG of starter.

Bottling
Boil priming solution for 10 mins

Quick questions:
Do you keep a probe in your starter while it is growing on the stir plate? Do you temperature control your stir plate environment.

For priming, I microwave sugar in a small amount of kettle boiled water for 2 mins, then add while siphoning the beer into a bottling bucket. I'm working under the assumption that microwaves kill most bugs and the liquid is boiling by the end. Is this a bad idea and also I wonder could it be extended to making starters.

Many handy tips here re good brewing procedures. Just for the record I do temperature control my yeast starter (at 22°C as recommended by White & Zainasheff) mainly because otherwise heat from the stirrer motor sends it too high.

Now to get back on topic re the next meet. This will be my last so I'll put some money behind the bar for a tab.

1. Brewtus - APA, US IPA and maybe bottled barrel.

Note also that we are having a more family orientated going away event this Sunday afternoon from 3:00 pm to which you are all most welcome including partners and kids. Address is 3 Myrtle Avenue (south end of Royal Terrace), Dun Laoghaire. Above beers will be on tap and chance to check out my brewing set-up.

Quote from: Brewtus on July 08, 2015, 04:47:56 PMThis will be my last so I'll put some money behind the bar for a tab.

Now that's how you guarantee a good crowd!  ;) :)

Bruce, I don't think you should be putting your hand in your pocket! I'm sure there'll be a few pints coming your way to thank you for the great contribution you've made over the last couple of years.

For those NHC members who don't know Bruce, he won national medals in 2014 and 2015 and also had the enviable/unenviable task of judging sours and Belgians in the 2015 Nationals. A terrific bloke and a fine brewer whose vast brewing knowledge and quality beers will be sorely missed at the monthly meets in the Dark Horse.

Cheers to you Bruce, looking forward to your NHC send-off. Please keep in touch with us on the forum, and give us a shout for a pint when you come back to visit Ireland.

+1

Quote from: Shanna on July 08, 2015, 02:22:53 PMOne question how do you clean your bottles and do you clean them in one go.

Soz! Don't know how I missed this..

Very simple, I fill each bottle with hot water and then use a funnel to put a few granules of oxi into each one. Leave to bubble for 5 mins or so, then I use a bottle washer to give the bottles a little scrub. Rinse each bottle twice with hot water and drain. Then sanitise with StarSan.

I'm pretty fastidious about rinsing my bottles straight after they're drained though, so I rarely get much crud build-up in them. Though I do find that Belgian and English yeasts tend to leave a thin coating of residue in the bottles even if they're well rinsed.

Interesting. I usually rince once I use a bottle, then filled the sink every weekend with oxi and hot water to leave them soak for 30 minutes. Follow that with a good shake and then 3 princes in hot water and store covered in a crate until I need to use them. On bottling day a quick blast of starsan on each bottle and off I go.

Quote from: molc on July 08, 2015, 02:38:52 PM
Do you keep a probe in your starter while it is growing on the stir plate? Do you temperature control your stir plate environment.

Nope, to both questions. My setup is pretty low-tech, and that's the way I like it. I just let the starter do it's thing, fermenting in the kitchen, keeping an eye out for kreusen, yeast dropping etc. I take the finishing gravity of the starter and monitor temperature if I have concerns about the viability of the yeast or the progress of the starter fermentation.

Quote from: molc on July 08, 2015, 02:38:52 PM
For priming, I microwave sugar in a small amount of kettle boiled water for 2 mins, then add while siphoning the beer into a bottling bucket. I'm working under the assumption that microwaves kill most bugs and the liquid is boiling by the end. Is this a bad idea and also I wonder could it be extended to making starters.

Not sure if it's a bad idea. I prefer to boil starters for the prescribed 10 mins - if the starter is going to be on a stir plate where the idea is to whip air into the wort, I want the wort to be completely bug free. 2 mins is good, but 10 mins is better.. :)

Quote from: molc on July 17, 2015, 09:35:33 AM
Interesting. I usually rince once I use a bottle, then filled the sink every weekend with oxi and hot water to leave them soak for 30 minutes. Follow that with a good shake and then 3 princes in hot water and store covered in a crate until I need to use them. On bottling day a quick blast of starsan on each bottle and off I go.

If that's what works for you, cool. I'm more cautious, in that I only do the oxi deep cleaning and sanitisation directly before bottling. I do a lot of beers for aging, beers that I want to stand up in 1 or two years time, so I'm probably more cautious than most.

Cheers. Food for thought.

Since this is meant to be the meetup post, just going to put it back on track :D

1. Bubbles  - Saison, Cider
2. Shanna - American IPA & Munich "Schlecht" lager
3. Molc - Sweet Porter, Cider
4. Brewtus - APA, US IPA and maybe bottled barrel.

1. Bubbles  - Saison, Cider
2. Shanna - American IPA & Munich "Schlecht" lager
3. Molc - Sweet Porter, Cider
4. Brewtus - APA, US IPA and maybe bottled barrel.
5. JohnC - Ordinary Bitter

I used the free Goldings from last month in the bitter and I reckon there's a stale taste off them. Has anyone else used them?
Yee can let me know what yee think on Thursday andyway but I'm tempted to dump them.

1. Bubbles  - Saison, Cider
2. Shanna - American IPA & Munich "Schlecht" lager
3. Molc - Sweet Porter, Cider
4. Brewtus - APA, US IPA and maybe bottled barrel.
5. JohnC - Ordinary Bitter
6.CC- Pale Ale

New to the area and my first meet so looking forward to meeting you all.

Hi CC, you're very welcome.

Quote from: CC on July 28, 2015, 08:33:26 PM
1. Bubbles  - Saison, Cider
2. Shanna - American IPA & Munich "Schlecht" lager
3. Molc - Sweet Porter, Cider
4. Brewtus - APA, US IPA and maybe bottled barrel.
5. JohnC - Ordinary Bitter
6.CC- Pale Ale
7.David-Irish Red

Quote from: Bubbles on July 28, 2015, 08:47:45 PM
Hi CC, you're very welcome.

Ditto CC we are going to be toasting a departing member so it's timely that somebody new joins us.

Shanna

Bubbles, can you bring along my perlick and bits that Lurch gave you last month? Cheers man.

What perlick..?

;) 8) O0

Quote from: Bubbles on July 29, 2015, 11:48:00 AM
What perlick..?

;) 8) O0

Little shit >:)

Brewcon yeasts being delivered today :-[
still good until the end of Sept and stored well
002 Bubbles
300 Shanna
13 Brewtus

Cheers dude. Delivered to the meet, or my gaff??

Your gaff in bag full of ice along with that other test tube ;D

What other test tube?? The one containing the special stuff??? Sssh! I told you not to mention that online!

What's your ETA?

1. Bubbles  - Saison, Cider
2. Shanna - American IPA & Munich "Schlecht" lager
3. Molc - Sweet Porter, Cider
4. Brewtus - APA, US IPA and maybe bottled barrel.
5. JohnC - Ordinary Bitter
6.CC- Pale Ale
7.David-Irish Red
8. RonnieB - Dark Mild and Hacked Coopers APA

Quote from: Bubbles on July 29, 2015, 01:48:03 PM
What other test tube?? The one containing the special stuff??? Sssh! I told you not to mention that online!

What's your ETA?

Is it Time for me to bring out the latex gloves again?

Shanna

Quote from: Ciderhead on July 29, 2015, 12:48:31 PM
Brewcon yeasts being delivered today :-[
still good until the end of Sept and stored well
002 Bubbles
300 Shanna
13 Brewtus

Perfect timing as I am doing a Weiss beer at the weekend :) cheers CH.

Shanna

Shanna, I have these in my fridge. Thanks to the mighty CH.

Do you want me to bring tomorrow, I can put them in the fridge in the DH when I arrive. Or you collect some evening? Not tonight though.

Brewtus, what's the story with yours, shall I bring tomorrow evening?

1. Bubbles  - Saison, Cider
2. Shanna - American IPA & Munich "Schlecht" lager
3. Molc - Sweet Porter, Cider
4. Brewtus - APA, US IPA and maybe bottled barrel.
5. JohnC - Ordinary Bitter
6.CC- Pale Ale
7.David-Irish Red
8. RonnieB - Dark Mild and Hacked Coopers APA
9. Lurchalicious - blonde ale take 2 (hbc kit); belgian so called "dubbel " hbc kit

Quote from: Bubbles on July 29, 2015, 07:51:48 PM
Shanna, I have these in my fridge. Thanks to the mighty CH.

Do you want me to bring tomorrow, I can put them in the fridge in the DH when I arrive. Or you collect some evening? Not tonight though.

Brewtus, what's the story with yours, shall I bring tomorrow evening?

Tomorrow would be great if you would not mind thanks.

Shanna

No bothers.

1. Bubbles  - Saison, Cider
2. Shanna - American IPA & Munich "Schlecht" lager
3. Molc - Sweet Porter, Cider
4. Brewtus - APA, US IPA and maybe bottled barrel.
5. JohnC - Ordinary Bitter
6.CC- Pale Ale
7.David-Irish Red
8. RonnieB - Dark Mild and Hacked Coopers APA
9. bachus - cider, sweet hopped mead

Quote from: Bubbles on July 29, 2015, 07:51:48 PM
Shanna, I have these in my fridge. Thanks to the mighty CH.

Do you want me to bring tomorrow, I can put them in the fridge in the DH when I arrive. Or you collect some evening? Not tonight though.

Brewtus, what's the story with yours, shall I bring tomorrow evening?

Yes, bring it along. Probably a while before I do another brew though...

1. Bubbles  - Saison, Cider
2. Shanna - American IPA & Munich "Schlecht" lager
3. Molc - Sweet Porter, Cider
4. Brewtus - APA, US IPA and maybe bottled barrel.
5. JohnC - Ordinary Bitter
6.CC- Pale Ale
7.David-Irish Red
8. RonnieB - Dark Mild and Hacked Coopers APA
9. bachus - cider, sweet hopped mead
10. Pob - Cider (do I need vaccines or a visa to come north of the border?)

 :)

Yes, you must produce your papers on entry!!  8)

I pick up my day pass every morning as I cross the Liffey ;)

Pob just your wallet full, the prices those Blackrock boys pay for their beer will make your toes curl ;) Sorry I can't make it, airport at dawn.

Bruce enjoy your next adventure and thanks for all the advice and help over the last couple of years, your palette will be missed.

We treated him very well :) that mead, Jesus that was some tasty tipple.

Outstanding mead, keep on making it, Padwan.

Very friendly lot, great evening. Great beers, guys.

The barrel barley wine deserves a tulip/snifter, some fine cheese & a lazy evening - lovely stuff.

Will do it again guys, next time without spillage

Lads, it was a pleasure to meet you! Thank you for the kind words. I can't wait till 27th of August :-)

Very enjoyable night.
Really enjoyed that Mead.

There must have been at least 30 beers tasted last night! And I am feeling rough.. What an absolutely brilliant night though. Couple of new faces too, thanks to CC and Bachus for coming along.

Stand outs for me were the pale ale from Shanna and pob's Roggenbier. But best of the night, by a country mile, was Bachus' mead. Great to have such a knowledgeable mead maker in our midst. Bachus, prepare to be bombarded with more questions next month. Great to meet you, sir.

A great send-off for Brewtus, I think.

Pob, just wanted to check that you shut the gate on your way out??

Forgot to mention, we also bumped into BeoirFinder who joined us for a few.  :)