National Homebrew Club Ireland

All,

Bit of background reading on this (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,10753.0.html) thread, but we're having an evening dedicated to the evaluation of beers intended for the 2016 Nationals. Bring your beers along to be evaluated by one of the NHC's certified BJCP judges and get a fully completed score sheet. Then afterwards, the judges will be available to answer any questions you might have in relation to your beer.

In order to make the evening run as smoothly as possible, please sign up below stating how many beers you want to have evaluated.

This is not exclusively for South Dublin Brewers members, all welcome.

I think it might be wise if we set a limit of 3 beers per brewer, but let's see what sort of demand there is first.


Bubbles.


Details
Date: Wednesday 2nd December
Time: 8pm
Please bring 1 x 500ml bottle of each beer.

Hrm, is there no interest at all in this? Was looking forward to getting my tastebuds in gear :)

It's disappointing that there's no interest in this from anyone in the Dublin area. I'm at a loss why..?

I'll be bringing a few beers for evaluation anyway, so you'll get your practice in. :)

I might have to cancel a couple of the judges at this stage..  :(

It may be that its a bit early! January would probably see a lot more beers ready for pre-judging!

Quote from: Will_D on November 20, 2015, 12:55:33 PM
It may be that its a bit early! January would probably see a lot more beers ready for pre-judging!

Indeed, but the idea was that it would give people some good feedback plus an opportunity to re-brew before doing another session in the new year.

I'll have 1 or 2 to be judged.

Just have to check my visa to go north of the border is still valid

Quote from: pob on November 20, 2015, 02:48:57 PM
I'll have 1 or 2 to be judged.

Just have to check my visa to go north of the border is still valid

There is strict control on the Dublin/Wicklow DMZ these days.. Rumours abound that it's been put in place due to high levels of cross-border sheep smuggling..

Ok, let's get a list going..

1. Bubbles - 3 entries

Quote from: Bubbles on November 20, 2015, 03:21:54 PM
There is strict control on the Dublin/Wicklow DMZ these days.. Rumours abound that it's been put in place due to high levels of cross-border sheep smuggling..

Nah, it's goats

1. Bubbles - 3 entries
2. Pob - 2 entries

Quote from: pob on November 20, 2015, 03:29:12 PM

Quote from: Bubbles on November 20, 2015, 03:21:54 PM
There is strict control on the Dublin/Wicklow DMZ these days.. Rumours abound that it's been put in place due to high levels of cross-border sheep smuggling..

Nah, it's goats

Dem horny feckers..

1. Bubbles - 3 entries
2. Pob - 2 entries
3. Molc - 1 entry (If someone else judges it, otherwise, we're just drinking it :D)

1. Bubbles - 3 entries
2. Pob - 2 entries
3. Molc - 1 entry ( if someone else judges it, otherwise, we're just drinking it :D)
4. Shanna - 3 entries

Quote from: Bubbles on November 20, 2015, 11:56:33 AM
It's disappointing that there's no interest in this from anyone in the Dublin area. I'm at a loss why..?

I'll be bringing a few beers for evaluation anyway, so you'll get your practice in. :)

I might have to cancel a couple of the judges at this stage..  :(

Apologies was a bit slow responding to this as I forgot about it. Added my entries to the list.

Shanna

Thanks for the updates lads. I made a bit of a boo-boo though.. I should never have asked ye to list the beer styles you'll be bringing. Not a big deal of course, but it's better not to have anything that might influence the judges. Apologies for editing your posts, hope that's ok.

Mmm, 9 entries - this is more like it.

No worries about the edits. Logistics wise, it's 10-15 minutes per entry to judge properly. We did 6 in the exam and it's a long enough time writing - I'd say on a school night an individual table will cap at 6-8 beers if we want to have a bit of a chat about the scoresheets afterwards.

Oh God Dammit I can bring a load of 40+s if I must

Hoo-hoo!!! :)

CH is starting the trash talking early! Feeling confident dude? :)

Quote from: CH on November 20, 2015, 11:28:18 PM
Oh God Dammit I can bring a load of 40+s if I must

Judging your own beer again CH!!!!

Shanna

Too late to put in an entry? 

1. Bubbles - 3 entries
2. Pob - 2 entries
3. Molc - 1 entry ( if someone else judges it, otherwise, we're just drinking it :D)
4. Shanna - 3 entries
5. Craiclad - 1 entry

No, plenty of time to register more entries if you need.

I would half love to get a judging on that SMaSH beer I brought last meet, but I have no idea what category I would enter it in. Somewhere between an Amber/Pale ale and an IPA?

Can't remember the colour offhand. Pick one of the styles and well give feedback anyway, including if we think it's in the wrong category.

Awesome, 2 entries it is!

1. Bubbles - 3 entries
2. Pob - 2 entries
3. Molc - 1 entry ( if someone else judges it, otherwise, we're just drinking it :D)
4. Shanna - 3 entries
5. Craiclad - 2 entries

Quote from: craiclad on November 21, 2015, 07:46:23 PM
I would half love to get a judging on that SMaSH beer I brought last meet, but I have no idea what category I would enter it in. Somewhere between an Amber/Pale ale and an IPA?

I remember it, I'd say it is definitely an American amber. Too dark to be a pake ale, not bitter and hoppy enough to be an IPA.

1. Bubbles - 3 entries
2. Pob - 2 entries
3. Molc - 1 entry ( if someone else judges it, otherwise, we're just drinking it :D)
4. Shanna - 3 entries
5. Craiclad - 2 entries
6. Lurchalicious - 1 entry;  hopefully I can bottle it well.

Looks like I can make it. I would like to add 2 if its not too late.

1. Bubbles - 3 entries
2. Pob - 2 entries
3. Molc - 1 entry ( if someone else judges it, otherwise, we're just drinking it :D)
4. Shanna - 3 entries
5. Craiclad - 2 entries
6. Lurchalicious - 1 entry;  hopefully I can bottle it well.
7. David - 2 entries

Course not, Dave.

Great to see so many SDBers avail of this opportunity. Though I thought there might be more interest from the other Dublin clubs.

Come on chaps, we don't bite! :) Bring your beers along for scoring and tuck into a few nice beers while you wait. It's two minutes walk from the train station. And there's a full case of Marriage Parfait and Saison Dupont in the Dark Horse fridge..

Any Jaipur ;)

Quote from: CH on November 25, 2015, 07:08:15 PM
Any Jaipur ;)

One suspects after ur recent travels around Ireland with AJ the Jaipur will be heading ur way :)

Shanna

Attach an open bottle to a string on a stick and the donkey will pull the cart ;)

Quote from: CH on November 25, 2015, 07:08:15 PM
Any Jaipur ;)

Any amount of it! And Kipling, Wild Raven too.

They've got the Siren Calypso on tap at the moment. Berliner weiss dry-hopped with Galaxy. Amazing stuff, hopefully there will be some left by the 2nd..

Hi Conor,

Any requirements on the bottles being delabelled or anything else? Would be great if we could get the beer collected & stored in the fridge in the Dark horse fridge in advance. Would be willing to help collect bottles from people if there was interest in it & there was no objection from you?

Shanna

No requirements on labels, as long as the label doesn't identify the brewer. I think this is the most sensible option.

I'm not sure about delivering bottles in advance. I've no problem asking the guv'nor and I'm sure he'd oblige, but I'm not sure there'd a lot interest in dropping off in advance, looking at the signups we have already. I'll ask however, and post back when I get confirmation. That do?

Quote from: Bubbles on November 25, 2015, 08:29:39 PM
No requirements on labels, as long as the label doesn't identify the brewer. I think this is the most sensible option.

I'm not sure about delivering bottles in advance. I've no problem asking the guv'nor and I'm sure he'd oblige, but I'm not sure there'd a lot interest in dropping off in advance, looking at the signups we have already. I'll ask however, and post back when I get confirmation. That do?

Sounds good, numbers involved are modest anyway. I would offer to collect them so there would be only be a single drop off required.

Shanna

Rember you need to be able to associate a beer with a person to give them their score after as well. I'd say label each bottle with:
Entry No:
Category: American IPA
Sub Category: 21A

Keep a list of the numbers so you can tell people after.

Now instead, if you pickup on the night, you can assign those numbers as you get the beer and put it on a label on the bottle.

Almost like running a full mini comp here at this point :) we should have registered with bjcp and gotten judging points too :D

On the night, how about the judges work though the beer and then hand the leftover bottle and scoresheet down to the table and ye can have a chat etc while we beaver away at the pile ;)

Quote from: molc on November 26, 2015, 08:17:04 AM
Rember you need to be able to associate a beer with a person to give them their score after as well. I'd say label each bottle with:
Entry No:
Category: American IPA
Sub Category: 21A

Keep a list of the numbers so you can tell people after.

Now instead, if you pickup on the night, you can assign those numbers as you get the beer and put it on a label on the bottle.

Almost like running a full mini comp here at this point :) we should have registered with bjcp and gotten judging points too :D

On the night, how about the judges work though the beer and then hand the leftover bottle and scoresheet down to the table and ye can have a chat etc while we beaver away at the pile ;)

Don't worry dude, I'll be keeping track of things! ;)

I'm trying to keep this as informal as possible. However, your suggestion has reminded me that if people are going to drop beers off in advance at the DH, they'll need to be clearly marked with a removable label.

I think it's a great idea to hand the beer back to the brewer at the end of judging for a bit of discussion/retribution. ;)

Quote from: Bubbles on November 25, 2015, 08:29:39 PM
No requirements on labels, as long as the label doesn't identify the brewer. I think this is the most sensible option.

I'm not sure about delivering bottles in advance. I've no problem asking the guv'nor and I'm sure he'd oblige, but I'm not sure there'd a lot interest in dropping off in advance, looking at the signups we have already. I'll ask however, and post back when I get confirmation. That do?

Colm in the DH says no problem if you want to drop bottles off in advance. Just make sure the labels include your name and the beer style and that they are removable. Ta.

Ahhh... I came home tonight to find that my siblings have polished off the last of my hefeweizen. This sort of thing makes you want to put a lock on the keezer.

Would it be bad form to bring a "problem" beer to get feedback on? I feel like it would be taking advantage of the whole Pre Competition Purpose of this thing, but I'd love to see a score sheet for some of the beers I'm critical of.

Quote from: craiclad on November 26, 2015, 12:15:37 PM
Would it be bad form to bring a "problem" beer to get feedback on? I feel like it would be taking advantage of the whole Pre Competition Purpose of this thing, but I'd love to see a score sheet for some of the beers I'm critical of.

No bother man. I'm sure any of the judges will be willing to give you an opinion on it.

Not taking advantage at all - the idea is that you're getting early feedback from the NHC's trained palates so that you can rebrew it for the competition.

However, if it's seriously flawed (big solvent, infection) then you might let me know and I'll leave it till last, or look for a judge who's willing! :)

If it's solvent or infection, we can do that informally as well, as major flaws are much quicker to call :)

Lads,
Too late to put in an entry? 

Certainly not dude! Just stick your name down, but don't mention the style of beer you're bringing.

1. Bubbles - 3 entries
2. Pob - 2 entries
3. Molc - 1 entry ( if someone else judges it, otherwise, we're just drinking it :D)
4. Shanna - 3 entries
5. Craiclad - 2 entries
6. Lurchalicious - 1 entry;  hopefully I can bottle it well.
7. David - 2 entries
8. bachus - 2 entries

I'm bringing something but i'll be ucked if yer going to judge it maybe I should save it ;)

16 beers. Hope we have a good few judges now :)

It's shaping up to be a great night, geeking out on BJCP and other beer nerd stuff.

Preparations are ongoing - my task at lunchtime is the procurement of cream crackers. Obviously, they will have to be very fine cream crackers, so as not offend the delicate palates of our judges. ;) Any objects to Jacob's? :)

In an attempt to make sure everything runs smoothly:

Kickoff is at 8pm. Could I ask entrants to be as punctual as they possibly can so that we can get the beers registered, assigned to tables etc. But if you're going to be a bit late, that's no problem, we'll slot you in somewhere. (This is the biggest downside to not dropping off beers in advance, but we'll work it all out on the night..)

The idea is to get all the beers organised as early as possible so that the judges can begin their deliberations at 8:30pm.

Any questions, just ask here or drop me a PM. Ta!

Most important question - is the Galaxy Berliner Weisse still on tap? Been itching to try out a good example :)

I don't know - I hope so!

I shall show my face but with 0 beer, I only popped my current brew into the keg last night.

need plastic glasses?
deffo not bringing my 'special cider' to what could be "rankfest"... only joking SCD, are there bouncers or a backdoor in case things get edgy?

Quote from: CH on December 01, 2015, 02:44:39 PM
need plastic glasses?

No thanks lad, just purchased some. Along with the crackers.. :)

Quote from: CH on December 01, 2015, 02:44:39 PM
deffo not bringing my 'special cider' to what could be "rankfest"... only joking SCD, are there bouncers or a backdoor in case things get edgy?

Rankfest?? 'kin 'ell...

We don't have 'official' bouncers.. but we do have some of the tallest homebrewers in Ireland (and I'm willing to put money on that!). I'm sure the lads will step in if things get out of hand..

Quote from: CH on December 01, 2015, 02:44:39 PM
need plastic glasses?
deffo not bringing my 'special cider' to what could be "rankfest"... only joking SCD, are there bouncers or a backdoor in case things get edgy?

It's ok, the NCB and GCB will be there bringing up the standard. *hides*

Quote from: CH on December 01, 2015, 02:44:39 PM
only joking SCD

By the way, chief.. it's "SDB"..

I know you Wickla lads have a little trouble with the old readin' and ritin'.. (HIDES!  :) )

Quote from: molc on December 01, 2015, 02:56:24 PM

Quote from: CH on December 01, 2015, 02:44:39 PM
need plastic glasses?
deffo not bringing my 'special cider' to what could be "rankfest"... only joking SCD, are there bouncers or a backdoor in case things get edgy?

It's ok, the NCB and GCB will be there bringing up the standard. *hides*

Did I mention that all non-SDB members will have their scores publicised on the forum on Thursday??  >:D ;) ;)

Quote from: Bubbles on December 01, 2015, 03:00:30 PM

Quote from: molc on December 01, 2015, 02:56:24 PM

Quote from: CH on December 01, 2015, 02:44:39 PM
need plastic glasses?
deffo not bringing my 'special cider' to what could be "rankfest"... only joking SCD, are there bouncers or a backdoor in case things get edgy?

It's ok, the NCB and GCB will be there bringing up the standard. *hides*

Did I mention that all non-SDB members will have their scores publicised on the forum on Thursday??  >:D ;) ;)

I'll be nice :D THere's a reason I'm bringing a Citra IPA but not getting it judged ;)

Quote from: molc on December 01, 2015, 03:01:23 PM

Quote from: Bubbles on December 01, 2015, 03:00:30 PM

Quote from: molc on December 01, 2015, 02:56:24 PM

Quote from: CH on December 01, 2015, 02:44:39 PM
need plastic glasses?
deffo not bringing my 'special cider' to what could be "rankfest"... only joking SCD, are there bouncers or a backdoor in case things get edgy?

It's ok, the NCB and GCB will be there bringing up the standard. *hides*

Did I mention that all non-SDB members will have their scores publicised on the forum on Thursday??  >:D ;) ;)

I'll be nice :D THere's a reason I'm bringing a Citra IPA but not getting it judged ;)

That's cheating!! :D

Surely that's against the homebrew judge's code of ethics.. or something.. no?? ;)

1. Bubbles - 3 entries
2. Pob - 2 entries
3. Molc - 1 entry ( if someone else judges it, otherwise, we're just drinking it :D)
4. Shanna - 3 entries
5. Craiclad - 2 entries
6. Lurchalicious - 1 entry;  hopefully I can bottle it well.
7. David - 2 entries
8. bachus - 2 entries
9. JohnC - 1 entry

Quote from: Bubbles on December 01, 2015, 03:27:16 PM
That's cheating!! :D

Surely that's against the homebrew judge's code of ethics.. or something.. no?? ;)

Why no, it's being a contentious judge. I don't deem the beer of a good enough quality to push on a poor laboured judge who is trying to evaluate and help fellow homebrewers ;)

Or, in this case, CraicLad wants to taste it even though I don't think it's that good :D

Quote from: Bubbles on December 01, 2015, 02:58:57 PM

Quote from: CH on December 01, 2015, 02:44:39 PM
only joking SCD

By the way, chief.. it's "SDB"..

I know you Wickla lads have a little trouble with the old readin' and ritin'.. (HIDES!  :) )

You can can run...
As that knacker fighter says
"We are not here to take part we are here to take over"
Now where's that spit bucket ;)

Quote from: molc on December 01, 2015, 02:56:24 PM
It's ok, the NCB and GCB will be there bringing up the standard. *hides*

Oh thank God, I'm still bringing the Rennie tho

Quote from: CH on December 01, 2015, 05:53:33 PM

Quote from: molc on December 01, 2015, 02:56:24 PM
It's ok, the NCB and GCB will be there bringing up the standard. *hides*

Oh thank God, I'm still bringing the Rennie tho

All that jive talk and he gonna bring Rennie!, we just chew on a bit of dry wall round here.

Quote from: molc on December 01, 2015, 03:43:36 PM

Quote from: Bubbles on December 01, 2015, 03:27:16 PM
That's cheating!! :D

Surely that's against the homebrew judge's code of ethics.. or something.. no?? ;)

Why no, it's being a contentious judge. I don't deem the beer of a good enough quality to push on a poor laboured judge who is trying to evaluate and help fellow homebrewers ;)

Or, in this case, CraicLad wants to taste it even though I don't think it's that good :D

Was that supposed to be "conscientious judge" rather than "contentious judge" :)

Shanna

Damn it, now even my browser auto corrects. Though knowing my track record, maybe it's a Freudian slip ;)

The Rennie is to cut the charlie

Quote from: molc on December 01, 2015, 08:50:25 PM
Damn it, now even my browser auto corrects. Though knowing my track record, maybe it's a Freudian slip ;)

Yes I did consider that based on past form, but will give you the benefit of the doubt :)

Shanna

Lads, no pissing about now tonight.. No slipping the judges cash or sexual favours in an effort to improve your scores!

We have some of the best beer judges in Ireland, as well as john o'c, coming tonight. Let's not ask them to compromise their credibility...  ;) :D

I'll be there about 7:45, to get a few things set up. Some of you are probably going to 'spoons for a palate cleanser beforehand..

You have scpresheets printed btw?

Told you it was the goats we like.

Hope you have the pencils, scoresheets, torches, crackers, guidelines, flavour wheels, spittoons, ..., etc  ready?

See you there at 8.

Jesus lads, you'd swear I never organised one of these things before! 😀

No need for spitoon.. Just use the floor man... ;)

Quote from: pob on December 02, 2015, 06:37:50 PM
Told you it was the goats we like.

Eh I like you too...  ???

Grants to Conor for organising a well run night. Was great Craic and thanks to all that took part. Now to recover after my jog for the train...

Good one Bubbles. Next time get some of your minions to help you, run off your feet
As always great time, fe*k our crappy public transport which shuts down just as its getting fun.
See you back north of the border soon.

Bacchus: keep on doing what your doing

Well organised and great to see a club in the ascendency with fellas improving all the time.
Boon Geuze took a beating at €5.75 a bottle, but somebody went home happy ;)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/67d3131f19d8dadafc04b072849d30f2.jpg)
GCB nothing to worry about our titles safe ;)

Brain not quite active yet, but here goes..  :-\

It was a brilliant night. Everyone went home happy with the scoresheets, and the Q&A session afterwards was felt to be really beneficial.

Managing the scores and the "cellar" along with stewarding 3 tables was hectic enough, but manageable. But I don't think I could have handled a fourth table.  :-[

Big thank you to our 6 judges - Ronan, Peter, Colm, Rossa, John and Shane. Hope you enjoyed getting some practice in. Much appreciated.

But the biggest thanks of the night has to go to Colm, Adam and the Dark Horse for supporting us. They're a great bunch of lads, get in there and support them.

Thanks also to the members of the South Dublin Brewers, many of whom were unfamiliar with the business of competition brewing, who entered into the spirit of things and offered their beers up for evaluation.

It was terrific to see the camaraderie and community spirit of the NHC in action once again last night. Very proud to be a member.

Cheers lads.

@Bubbles: Big thanks for well organized meeting! Great job!
Thanks guys for a great evening. Thanks again to 'big six' who was able to join us.

BTW - I was asked about mead and what was added. Very young 10L batch (03/2015; still needs more aging).
Recipe come from my grandfather notebook and  polish handbook of meadmaking "Meadmaking. The art of converting honey and fruits into beverages") from 1925- the author was a professor of botany at the University of Lwow.

Gravity: Start: ~1.1057  Fin:   ~1.020 
2.5 liters honey [type: Quadruple    1:4]
7.5 liters water
0.5g cloves
2g  cinamon
6g hops [3g "Lubelski + 3g "Casade" (thanks Ronan for Hops).]
5 grams juniper
Time required for aging: min 1 year
Citric acid: one big lemon

I was one of the "big" six that judged that mead and there was black lilac as well?
I have drunk a lot of mead over the years because I, as somebody described me recently, am a bee pimp, working 50K ladies per hive.
There was an aspect of this one that I wasn't too keen on, the oxidation, and so this is where the BJCP system breaks down, so my fellow judge loved the oxidation as it brought more complexity and profile but to me it was a flaw as I am judging against more traditional meads and BJCP standards which have no oxidation and we had a great debate on the topic and the reason we called you in half way through judging, so culturally as you kindly took the time to educate us in Poland you expose the mead to oxygen whereas us more conservative fermentors (boring if you like) minimise the headspace and even apply co2 blanket in headspace. So I say to you thank you for the education and this will be a tricky one for us in the nationals. jfi for everybody i scored him a 40  :)
   

A great night even if I had no beer to get judged or even offer for tasting.
Well done to all for an always great time.

That tactical nuclear Dave is a dangerous yet delicious beer imho!

Big thanks to the judges and Connor for their time and effort. It all seemed to go smoothly. Really enjoyable night.

Quote from: CH on December 03, 2015, 02:03:28 PM
There was an aspect of this one that I wasn't too keen on, the oxidation, and so this is where the BJCP system breaks down, so my fellow judge loved the oxidation as it brought more complexity and profile but to me it was a flaw as I am judging against more traditional meads and BJCP standards which have no oxidation and we had a great debate on the topic and the reason we called you in half way through judging, so culturally as you kindly took the time to educate us in Poland you expose the mead to oxygen whereas us more conservative fermentors (boring if you like) minimise the headspace and even apply co2 blanket in headspace. So I say to you thank you for the education and this will be a tricky one for us in the nationals. jfi for everybody i scored him a 40  :)

Great discussion last night about bachus' mead. As CH says, we took the unusual step of calling the "brewer" in to explain the style they had made, because it baffled the judges. (Not a slight on the judges, of course, this very traditional mead just doesn't conform to "THE GUIDELINES".)

However, I found the following in the "BJCP Mead Exam Study Guide" PDF:

QuoteNot all oxidation is bad, since oxidation can produce interesting complexity in mead. The organic chemistry is fairly complicated and involves multiple reactions, but oxygen, alcohols and acids can react slowly to produce esters. Oxidation can also produce nutty, sherry-like aromatics. Intentional oxidation is a part of some historical mead styles, such as Polish meads.

There has to be a home for these mead styles in the guidelines, but it's not immediately obvious. A pity, because they're amazing. I'm going to tweet Gordon Strong to get some advice. Will report back! ☺️

Quote from: David on December 03, 2015, 08:18:07 PM
Big thanks to the judges and Connor for their time and effort. It all seemed to go smoothly. Really enjoyable night.

Ditto thanks to Conor & also to the judges for taking the time to explain their feedback. Good to see some of our regulars also for some nice beers.

Shanna

Thanks for the comments lads.

Reply from Gordon Strong on Twitter this morning:

QuoteI make them too.  Look at category M4B.  It's listed by name... Be sure to describe it, though. There are many examples.

So I took a look at the BJCP Mead Guidelines for M4B (Historical Mead) and it mentions "Jadwiga", but doesn't describe the actual flavours that judges need to be looking out for. As far as I can see, there is indeed a gaping hole in the guidelines for these types of meads. I've asked Gordon to clarify where judges can find an actual description of Jadwiga.

https://guidelines.beerstyles.co/2015-m4b-historical-mead/

Thanks to the comments from this, I'm going to be re-brewing my recipe for the nationals. I can see where the original recipe went wrong, so fingers crossed the fixes will work.

Thanks again for organising - really was a help.

Quote from: molc on December 04, 2015, 11:29:40 AM
Thanks to the comments from this, I'm going to be re-brewing my recipe for the nationals. I can see where the original recipe went wrong, so fingers crossed the fixes will work.

Thanks again for organising - really was a help.

What did your beer score? Where did the judges pick up flaws, and how are you going to resolve them?

Quote from: Bubbles on December 04, 2015, 11:38:15 AM

Quote from: molc on December 04, 2015, 11:29:40 AM
Thanks to the comments from this, I'm going to be re-brewing my recipe for the nationals. I can see where the original recipe went wrong, so fingers crossed the fixes will work.

Thanks again for organising - really was a help.

What did your beer score? Where did the judges pick up flaws, and how are you going to resolve them?

It's an american amber, that scored a 29 and a 32. The comments were that the hop aroma was good but then the flavour didn't follow through, being a little thin and not as sweet as expected.

When I looked at my original recipe, my grain substitution was Crystal 30L for Crystal 40L and Crystal 90L for Crystal 120L, which would lose some of the complexity in the flavours.

I'm fixing that, as well as adding some carared for sweetness, aromatic malt for additional malt flavour, instead of munich, then caramunich ii, special B and a touch of pale chocolate for an added mix of medium and dark fruit flavours. Also going to use WLP001 instead of US-05, to get rid of a pear note that was noticed by one judge.
The mash is also going from 68 to 69, for some more dexterins.

The only issue now is since our grains are darker than the americans, I'm right on the edge of the style at 17SRM. Hopefully all the grains give red and not any brown.

Hmm.. strange that you got a lot body with a 68C mash temp... Can you post the amounts of crystal that you used, and the batch size?

I can't say I ever got pear notes from US-05. That seems to me to be a fermentation temperature issue or possibly a pitching temperature issue. US-05 is not as clean as WLP001, but in a hoppy and malty beer like an American amber, the small amount of yeast character should compliment the hops. I'd say, don't give up on US-05 just yet.

Go easy with that C120. It gets pretty intense if used in large amounts. A dab'll do ya..

Quote from: CH on December 03, 2015, 02:03:28 PM
I was one of the "big" six that judged that mead and there was black lilac as well?
I have drunk a lot of mead over the years because I, as somebody described me recently, am a bee pimp, working 50K ladies per hive.
There was an aspect of this one that I wasn't too keen on, the oxidation, and so this is where the BJCP system breaks down, so my fellow judge loved the oxidation as it brought more complexity and profile but to me it was a flaw as I am judging against more traditional meads and BJCP standards which have no oxidation and we had a great debate on the topic and the reason we called you in half way through judging, so culturally as you kindly took the time to educate us in Poland you expose the mead to oxygen whereas us more conservative fermentors (boring if you like) minimise the headspace and even apply co2 blanket in headspace. So I say to you thank you for the education and this will be a tricky one for us in the nationals. jfi for everybody i scored him a 40  :)

Hi CH. Proper oxidation is most important part of the fermentation and aging. I am moving mead 4-5 times/year to the second carboy/demijohn and doing proper aeration.
Just a quick question... I have an ace up my sleeve: 'Kapucynski trojniak' Capuchins Triple Mead): cinnamon, ginger, vanilla, hops; aged with cherry chips.  Very Sweet high-alcohol juice (~15%). Start: ~1.1536 fin ~1.0568. Very low carbonation/oxydation. I am trying to understand BJCP 2015 guidelines (http://www.bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Mead.pdf). Can you explain me how should I classify my mead? 

Quote from: Bubbles on December 04, 2015, 12:16:19 PM
Hmm.. strange that you got a lot body with a 68C mash temp... Can you post the amounts of crystal that you used, and the batch size?

I can't say I ever got pear notes from US-05. That seems to me to be a fermentation temperature issue or possibly a pitching temperature issue. US-05 is not as clean as WLP001, but in a hoppy and malty beer like an American amber, the small amount of yeast character should compliment the hops. I'd say, don't give up on US-05 just yet.

Go easy with that C120. It gets pretty intense if used in large amounts. A dab'll do ya..

The original recipe is here.  http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,10849.0.html
I'll put the new recipe up there now, just to clean up the threads.

A reply from Gordon Strong:

QuoteBut Polish meads are mentioned. So be sure to describe it as intentionally oxidized.

Fair enough on being more descriptive, but there is no reference to Polish mead in M4B. Maybe it's somewhere else in the guidelines..?

Quote from: Bubbles on December 04, 2015, 02:23:02 PM
A reply from Gordon Strong:

QuoteBut Polish meads are mentioned. So be sure to describe it as intentionally oxidized.

Fair enough on being more descriptive, but there is no reference to Polish mead in M4B. Maybe it's somewhere else in the guidelines..?

Just FYI..

I've just learned that the Mead Guidelines PDF does actually make mention of Polish mead, but the guidelines in the BJCP phone app do not. I'm not sure how long this has been in the PDF, or whether it's a recent addition, but it says:

QuoteM4B. Historical Mead
A Historical Mead is a historical or indigenous mead that
doesn't fit into another subcategory (e.g., Ethiopian tej, Polish
meads). The BJCP welcomes submissions of writeups of
historical or indigenous styles that fit into this category.