Hi everyone,
Brewed this recently (thats about 4th batch of the same recipie)
Est OG: 1046
Est FG: 1011
EBC (Color): 19.5
Est ABV: 4.4%
Grain Bill
4700g Pale Malt
400g Wheat Malt
200g Dark Crystal
250g Crystal
Hop Scedule
25g Amarillo @ 60min
30g Amarillo @ 20min
30g Mosaic @ 15min
30g Amarillo @ 10min
38g Mosaic @ 5min
30g Mosaic @ 1min (10 Min Steep)
Ended with 50ish IBUs. Aroma is great, first tongue is great, bitterness is high but reasonable and then it leaves quite heavy, long lasting afterstate. Had technical issues while brewing, so after the boil it took a very long 30-40min to drop bellow 80c. Wondering if this could be the reason? Or this is due amarillo hops?
Planning to reduce IBUs to somwhere 40-45 and use Magnum for my 60min addition. Any ideas or suggestions?
I would like to express Mosaic hops arome full, and just have nice clean bitterness without any side tastes afterwards.
previous batches were bitter (as to my personal taste I like it to be in mid 50 IBUs) but did not have that bad afterstate.
Cheers
What's unpleasant about the aftertaste?
That's quite a lot of hops for a APA in the boil which are going to give you a lot of IBUs. I just tried plugging your hop additions into Beersmith and it gave me 154.6 IBUs!!!
But if it took you a long time to cool then that would explain why it's more bitter than expected
Actually that was based on 19L. It also gives me 6.8ABV so my batches are presumably less than yours....What size are your batches?
5 minutes additions won't work if you are still steeping them 40 minutes later at 80C.
I ran your numbers through my software and it seems your grain bill is for 27 Litres (or there abouts)?
If that's the case that would give you a beer of a little over 70 IBU's?
With that ABV could be your beer is unbalanced.
If it's an off-flavour it could be one of many things. Best things is to bring it to a meet where someone has BJCP training. Check out the link below from the BJCP on beer faults.
http://www.bjcp.org/docs/Beer_faults.pdf
If its a lingering drying/puckering sensation rather than an identifiable taste it could be hop astringency, too much hop material at too high a temperature? See the second article down the page
http://byo.com/body/item/1124-mash-temperatures--hop-astringency-mr-wizard (http://byo.com/body/item/1124-mash-temperatures--hop-astringency-mr-wizard)
Beersmith doesn't account for steeping / whirlpooling very well. It takes no account of what temp the steeping is (more bitterness will be extracted @99° than 80°). And where hops are added before the end of the boil it doesn't add any steeping portion to them E.g. where 20g Citra added @ 5m (and 25 min steep) contributes 6.1 IBUs and 20g Citra (added @80°) steeped for 25 mins contributes 10.7 IBUs according to BS.
Quote from: Pheeel on February 28, 2017, 09:41:42 PM
What's unpleasant about the aftertaste?
That's quite a lot of hops for a APA in the boil which are going to give you a lot of IBUs. I just tried plugging your hop additions into Beersmith and it gave me 154.6 IBUs!!!
But if it took you a long time to cool then that would explain why it's more bitter than expected
It feels like way too much of Amarillo.
According to my calculator 25g of amarillo 9.6% AA @60min only gives 25 IBUs 23l batch with same grain bill. I can see everything goes bad from there.
Quote from: DEMPSEY on February 28, 2017, 10:18:07 PM
5 minutes additions won't work if you are still steeping them 40 minutes later at 80C.
I did not intend to steep it that long, 5min steep was planned, but unfortunately ended up with 40min.
Quote from: Johnnycheech on March 01, 2017, 07:26:15 AM
If it's an off-flavour it could be one of many things. Best things is to bring it to a meet where someone has BJCP training. Check out the link below from the BJCP on beer faults.
http://www.bjcp.org/docs/Beer_faults.pdf
Had another sample last night, don't thinks it is an off flavour, more likely too much amarillo. But surely I am not a BJCP judge.
:-[ this was blindly entered into nationals (I was happy with previous brews) just to get some feedback, so as soon as scoresheets will be available will get some thoughts.
Anybody would suggest a hop schedule? (I am happy with appearance colour etc, but not with hops)
I have all the ingredients and hoping to brew over weekend again. Have some magnum hops that might replace first amarillo addition. Any thoughts?
Thanks for all the onfo and suggestions.
P.S. sorry for multiple posts
How old is the beer? It might just be a bit green. The hops might need a bit more time to mellow and combine.
It was bottled 22nd of January. It might mellow down a bit I guess.
I'd drop the 20 minute addition. 15, 10 5 and 1/steep is loads. Use a clean bittering hop too, Magnum works well.
Quote from: wartotojas on March 01, 2017, 12:00:01 PM
It feels like way too much of Amarillo.
According to my calculator 25g of amarillo 9.6% AA @60min only gives 25 IBUs 23l batch with same grain bill. I can see everything goes bad from there.
According to my calculations if you leave out the final two hop additions you are still hovering over 70 IBU's.
American Pale Ales are normally in the 30-50 IBU range.
At 70 IBUs you at the top end for an American IPA.
Based on my calculator I was meant to get 52 IBUs, also missed my volumes so ended up with less pre boil volume giving 58 IBUs or so. I do like bitter beers so knew I am a bit over IBUs by the style.
But I don't trust the calculator I use after this. I will put the recipie back in to see what IBUs it will give me once I am home, but i am more likely to switch to something else now
Just get rid of the Amarillo addition at 20 mins that will drop the IBUs way down
Does this look any better? According brewers friend it is 37-38 IBUs. Typing in same in calculator I used previously gives me 31 IBU :o
Think it is time to buy Beersmith for myself
Quote from: wartotojas on March 01, 2017, 02:30:45 PM
But I don't trust the calculator I use after this. I will put the recipie back in to see what IBUs it will give me once I am home, but i am more likely to switch to something else now
IBU calculations are an estimate. I only use them as a guide, according to beersmith about 60 IBUs feels about right for a pale ale for me on my system. Your system could be the other way around. Don't get hung up on how many IBUs your software is saying.
Just curious. I knew there might be variations going from one calculator to another, but did not expect it to be that much of the difference.
I trust the bittering values for anything added in the boil and then ignore it for the WP and dry hops myself.
I won silver medal at the Nationals with an amarillo/mosaic session IPA
I think i can remember the gist of it but I'll try and dig out the recipe later and post it
Quote from: molc on March 01, 2017, 05:45:48 PM
I trust the bittering values for anything added in the boil and then ignore it for the WP and dry hops myself.
I always put the whirpool at 0 minutes and do 20 or 30. I add them at 80C anyway.
I can't find the recipe but off the top of my head it's very close if not exact to this
4kg Maris Otter
250g Mahogany Crystal
250g Wheat Malt
8g columbus @60
14g mosaic @20
14g amarillo @20
20g mosaic @5
20g amarillo @5
40g mosaic @0
40g amarillo @0
US-05 YEAST
Dry hop 120g mosaic
Thanks everybody. Got a lot to think about. I will probably stick to the hop additions I posted above except leave more mosaic for last addition for more aroma and fewer IBUs and see what happens. So the plan is:
10g Magnum @60min
15g Mosaic @15min
15g Amarillo @10min
20g Mosaic @5min
25g Mosaic @1min