amarillo/mosaic APA with very unpleasant aftertaste recipie advice

[wartotojas]

Hi everyone,
Brewed this recently (thats about 4th batch of the same recipie)
Est OG: 1046
Est FG: 1011
EBC (Color): 19.5
Est ABV: 4.4%

Grain Bill
4700g Pale Malt
400g Wheat Malt
200g Dark Crystal
250g Crystal

Hop Scedule
25g Amarillo @ 60min
30g Amarillo @ 20min
30g Mosaic   @ 15min
30g Amarillo @ 10min
38g Mosaic @ 5min
30g Mosaic @ 1min (10 Min Steep)

Ended with 50ish IBUs. Aroma is great, first tongue is great, bitterness is high but reasonable and then it leaves quite heavy, long lasting afterstate. Had technical issues while brewing, so after the boil it took a very long 30-40min to drop bellow 80c. Wondering if this could be the reason? Or this is due amarillo hops?

Planning to reduce IBUs to somwhere 40-45 and use Magnum for my 60min addition. Any ideas or suggestions?
I would like to express Mosaic hops arome full, and just have nice clean bitterness without any side tastes afterwards.

previous batches were bitter (as to my personal taste I like it to be in mid 50 IBUs) but did not have that bad afterstate.

Cheers

[Pheeel]

What's unpleasant about the aftertaste?

That's quite a lot of hops for a APA in the boil which are going to give you a lot of IBUs. I just tried plugging your hop additions into Beersmith and it gave me 154.6 IBUs!!!

But if it took you a long time to cool then that would explain why it's more bitter than expected

[Pheeel]

Actually that was based on 19L. It also gives me 6.8ABV so my batches are presumably less than yours....What size are your batches?

[DEMPSEY]

5 minutes additions won't work if you are still steeping them 40 minutes later at 80C.

[brianbrewed]

I ran your numbers through my software and it seems your grain bill is for 27 Litres (or there abouts)?

If that's the case that would give you a beer of a little over 70 IBU's?

With that ABV could be your beer is unbalanced.

[Jonnycheech]

If it's an off-flavour it could be one of many things. Best things is to bring it to a meet where someone has BJCP training. Check out the link below from the BJCP on beer faults.

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/Beer_faults.pdf

[Ciaran]

If its a lingering drying/puckering sensation rather than an identifiable taste it could be hop astringency, too much hop material at too high a temperature?  See the second article down the page
http://byo.com/body/item/1124-mash-temperatures--hop-astringency-mr-wizard

[Simon_]

Beersmith doesn't account for steeping / whirlpooling very well. It takes no account of what temp the steeping is (more bitterness will be extracted @99° than 80°). And where hops are added before the end of the boil it doesn't add any steeping portion to them E.g. where 20g Citra added @ 5m (and 25 min steep) contributes 6.1 IBUs  and 20g Citra (added @80°) steeped for 25 mins contributes 10.7 IBUs according to BS.

[wartotojas]

What's unpleasant about the aftertaste?

That's quite a lot of hops for a APA in the boil which are going to give you a lot of IBUs. I just tried plugging your hop additions into Beersmith and it gave me 154.6 IBUs!!!

But if it took you a long time to cool then that would explain why it's more bitter than expected

It feels like way too much of Amarillo.

According to my calculator 25g of amarillo 9.6% AA @60min only gives 25 IBUs 23l batch with same grain bill. I can see everything goes bad from there.

[wartotojas]

5 minutes additions won't work if you are still steeping them 40 minutes later at 80C.

I did not intend to steep it that long, 5min steep was planned, but unfortunately ended up with 40min.

[wartotojas]

If it's an off-flavour it could be one of many things. Best things is to bring it to a meet where someone has BJCP training. Check out the link below from the BJCP on beer faults.

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/Beer_faults.pdf

Had another sample last night, don't thinks it is an off flavour, more likely too much amarillo. But surely I am not a BJCP judge.

this was blindly entered into nationals (I was happy with previous brews) just to get some feedback, so as soon as scoresheets will be available will get some thoughts.

[wartotojas]

Anybody would suggest a hop schedule? (I am happy with appearance colour etc, but not with hops)
I have all the ingredients and hoping to brew over weekend again. Have some magnum hops that might replace first amarillo addition. Any thoughts?

Thanks for all the onfo and suggestions.

P.S. sorry for multiple posts

[nigel_c]

How old is the beer? It might just be a bit green. The hops might need a bit more time to mellow and combine.

[wartotojas]

It was bottled 22nd of January. It might mellow down a bit  I guess.

[Qs]

I'd drop the 20 minute addition. 15, 10 5 and 1/steep is loads. Use a clean bittering hop too, Magnum works well.