National Homebrew Club Ireland

Diageo I'm not a frog,
I was in a pub last night and as often the case with a limited choice to choose from I decided to have a pint of Guinness. The beer was served fine,there was no off flavours but as I drank a few it was apparent that the bean counters are continuing to drive this beer to a dumb downed shadow of what it once was, a great beer.
they apply the cook a frog approach by making continuing slight changes hoping that beer drinkers will not notice.

Well I notice.

This beer today is a thin bodied low gravity ale with low IBU'S probably in the teens. No amount of pixie dust sprinkled by their marketing people can hide the fact that they have gone past their Guinness light beer and have now got it to be Guinness Extra light.

As I only drink Guinness on return trips to home, you get a feeling for how anaemic it is.

So you both drink it at some stage and finish the pint  ;D

At least you can drink it unlike most Irish craft beers. Thats not just me saying that, i'm going by all the posts in the wastapp groups. Posts after post after post of crap infected undrinkable beers.

But unlike big commercial beers who most of the boys have no contact with unless its brewcon speakers...competiotions ....visits...... they can be named and shamed on here as usual but best we not upset our friends and say it like it is Irish Craft beer is 75% sink washer. So keep the name and shame to watsapp groups boys.

And so it goes on post after post.

PROST.

Quote from: Beerbuddha on September 15, 2018, 08:30:49 AM

At least you can drink it unlike most Irish craft beers. Thats not just me saying that, i'm going by all the posts in the wastapp groups. Posts after post after post of crap infected undrinkable beers.

But unlike big commercial beers who most of the boys have no contact with unless its brewcon speakers...competiotions ....visits...... they can be named and shamed on here as usual but best we not upset our friends and say it like it is Irish Craft beer is 75% sink washer. So keep the name and shame to watsapp groups boys.

And so it goes on post after post.

PROST.

I think you are missing the point, there is no question that there is an issue with Irish Craft beer that's not the discussion here. I believe Dempsey is flagging up that fact that G aren't maintaining previous quality and even worse letting the accountants at it by cutting corners.

It's a real shame as if they were cute and for pennies they could have excelled the product.
Personally I would concur the product used to have more body in it and now there are breweries out there that are brewing Irish Stout better than G.
You really can't beat a good pint of G but I haven't had one for years.

Not sure about your other points, Diageo used NHC for their own agenda on competitions and we were net losers, but hey that's life I don't think those would be repeated. As regards Brewcon we had an excellent speaker from Diageo and a poor one. They were not there in any official capacity but I suspect welcomed the opportunity to see what is going on at our grass roots level.
I often feel in St James that there is a huge talent bank of young clever brewers chomping at the bit to show their talents but get squashed by the corporate brow beating and the accountants.

Only analogy I can think for above is eating out and if you want a KFC or McDonald's drink G or other Macro beer. You will get a bland globally consistent boring product that ticks a box.
Or you can go to a local pizza restaurant where you can get an authentic locally prepared pizza with fresh ingredients. Sure it might be shit and you won't go back but those guys don't last and  every now and you come across or are recommended something that tastes amazing and you know it.
For a country that excels in quality food production from quality ingredients that's where craft beer is heading for me and taste does cost.

I'm not missing any point. I have been in this forum long enough to notice the BS.

CH
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Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2018, 08:32:54 PM »
QuoteThank You
Lads in the interests of fairness and liability should we name names?
I spose a statement of fact is ok Thomas.


I'm guessing as it's Diageo CH your rule doesn't count but again....same stuff from same people around bad craft beers. But I enjoy how THE BOYS rally around defending each other and there brands.


And so it goes on post after post

Quote from: Beerbuddha on September 15, 2018, 04:57:22 PM
I'm not missing any point. I have been in this forum long enough to notice the BS.

CH
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Re: Off flavours in commercial beers?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2018, 08:32:54 PM »
QuoteThank You
Lads in the interests of fairness and liability should we name names?
I spose a statement of fact is ok Thomas.


I'm guessing as it's Diageo CH your rule doesn't count but again....same stuff from same people around bad craft beers. But I enjoy how THE BOYS rally around defending each other and there brands.


And so it goes on post after post

Why are you quoting the number of posts I have posted what thats got to do with the topic?

The discussion in the other thread was referring to flaws in Irish Craft Beer, Diageo are not craft beer brewers.
At no point has anybody said there is a flaw in G, please don't mix up product quality and flaws.

If you don't like folks having a discussion about the product quality of G, maybe this thread discussion isn't for you?

The reason I stopped commenting on this forum a while back was because I had to defend Heineken, of all from people from allegations, created by craft nazis that they were using preservatives in their beer, and unfortunately without any support from the forum administrators. Total Horseshit, but promoted by the macro haters here, who just love to believe it was true. But real people, being paid real salary's livelihood's depended on a fair playing field , (macros pay their employees commensurate salieries by the way, a lesson still unfortunately to be learned by the micros, - we know nothing but you can learn from us on minimus wage) so here we go again, why has this club allowed the Beoirites back in? Beoir have an anti-macro agenda, that is, until it comes to prostituting themselves and their 'principles' for free beer in the Open Gate.
Either all brewers are fair game here, or none are, simple as....
No more tiptoeing around the craft brewers selling shit for top dollar, I've given up on the Irish craft beer lottery and I haven't the time or energy to follow the latest fashion trends on twitter, to find out what to buy.
I brew my own beer, without the need to waste money trying shit. (again a reminder, that's what this club is doing aquímoney has been wasted yet again.
One more question, why are people who allegedly 'Boycott' Diageo equipment facilitated in being allowed to sell stolen Diageo products on this website?

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Not sure I agree with all your sentiments about Beoir, I do know that the three of us that commented aren't even Beoir members.
Ironically I would say Beoir are probably closer to Macro Beer than NHC members but that's a discussion for a different forum.
I can't speak for the others but I personally have only ever received 3 year old hops for a competition the marketing arm of Diageo was running.

Kegs on here which I believe is what you were referring to in the main are old school now and have pretty much been replaced by single vessel or thermopots. I see more on building sites or these days than in homebrew sheds but your point is valid, not sure why keg tracing system was never realised in this market.

Some of the bashing you refer to I suspect comes from how the Macros conduct themselves in the commercial world and how they attempt to crush and or restrict Micro beer producers across the market.

The fact remains that 65 former homebrewers have gone Pro or involved in the craft industry, a lot of them were on this forum at one point.
So sure of course we are going to be pro Micro!
This is our turf, Micro breeding ground  if you will and what the NHC has received from Micros in support of everything we do including information sharing reflects that and vastly outweighs anything received from all the Macros. I know there were others here I didn't agree with that asked Macros for support but were turned down.
Diageo have used the NHC for their own advantage including that now grating Smithwicks advert. 
Micros keep pushing the boundaries and in the over 100 breweries in the market, there are probably 3-400 new beers every year.
As flagged in the other thread they don't get them right all of the time, ironically those breweries that produce flawed product in the main were never homebrewers. They keep trying and we and our relatives and our friends keep buying.
There's about 50 beers I would walk across the street for and buy at the moment.

But back on topic being the market leader in any industry will always put you up for scrutiny and review. Dempsey and I were stating that we felt the overall product quality has changed.
However closely anyone on here is connected to Diageo or any other Macro, there's not point in falling out over it we are all only here to brew and share a beer.

That's fine but you haven't addressed the censorship of criticising Irish craft beers, only macro bashing is tolerated, I refer to Beer Buddhas pasted article above, let's not name anyone wink wink in case we upset anyone, but within the same article Brewdog are fair game, as I stated either all brewers are fair game or none are. My understanding is this is not a political organisation like Beoir, merely a homebrew club simple enough as far as I can see.
Regarding my second point, rule 2 in the 'For Sale' rules states, it must be legal, whether plasterers, or builders etc used to steal kegs or not doesn't make it acceptable to facilitate the sale of stolen goods, regardless of what brewery they are stolen from and the ad is still live on this site


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If there is a post that is breaking forum rules then please hit the report button and we'll take a look at it. If it is in breach of NHC rules it will be dealt with according to the rules and regulations set out by the club.

And so the posts go on and on and on.

This forum has lost its way and sold out.

Where is integrity...morals....savings for members and advice for homebrewers.

I predict the usual response when anyone offers an opinion other than that of the higher archy who control membership funds.........offer your time...make the change ect.

RIP NHC long live BEOIR

You are sitting there ranting throwing rocks in a totally negative fashion, making all sorts of flaming trolling throw away comments about the NHC, have you nothing to contribute on the op?

Not quite sure what its all about..

i think the NHC has done a great job, the seeds were planted and the local clubs grew!

Feel free to express an opinion - not sure what the complaint is - or if there is one.

Quote from: Beerbuddha on September 16, 2018, 01:41:55 AM
And so the posts go on and on and on.

That's how a forum is supposed to work, so this is a positive comment. Good.

Quote from: Beerbuddha on September 16, 2018, 01:41:55 AM
This forum has lost its way and sold out.

'Guinness doesn't taste like it used to.'
'I agree.'
'I don't '
'I respect our difference of opinion.'
'Me too.'
'Kill them all!!'
'Eh?'

Quote from: Beerbuddha on September 16, 2018, 01:41:55 AM
Where is integrity...morals....savings for members and advice for homebrewers.

Still here for you, man. Check out the membership affiliates thread.

Quote from: Beerbuddha on September 16, 2018, 01:41:55 AM
I predict the usual response when anyone offers an opinion other than that of the higher archy who control membership funds.........offer your time...make the change ect.

Ooooooh. Badly played, sir.
(Is that enough righteous indignation for you, Nostradamus?)

Quote from: Beerbuddha on September 16, 2018, 01:41:55 AM
RIP NHC long live BEOIR

I'll plan for the wake while BEOIR peruse your CV.

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on September 15, 2018, 11:25:46 PM

Regarding my second point, rule 2 in the 'For Sale' rules states, it must be legal, whether plasterers, or builders etc used to steal kegs or not doesn't make it acceptable to facilitate the sale of stolen goods, regardless of what brewery they are stolen from and the ad is still live on this site


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Are we going to take down all the corny keg ads, and affiliate threads offering these?  All are marked property of Britvic or Cantwell & Cochrane.

Quote from: cruiscinlan on September 17, 2018, 11:08:39 AM

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on September 15, 2018, 11:25:46 PM

Regarding my second point, rule 2 in the 'For Sale' rules states, it must be legal, whether plasterers, or builders etc used to steal kegs or not doesn't make it acceptable to facilitate the sale of stolen goods, regardless of what brewery they are stolen from and the ad is still live on this site


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Are we going to take down all the corny keg ads, and affiliate threads offering these?  All are marked property of Britvic or Cantwell & Cochrane.

If the ads are reported by any of our members we will look into each report on a case by case basis.

Quote from: cruiscinlan on September 17, 2018, 11:08:39 AM

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on September 15, 2018, 11:25:46 PM

Regarding my second point, rule 2 in the 'For Sale' rules states, it must be legal, whether plasterers, or builders etc used to steal kegs or not doesn't make it acceptable to facilitate the sale of stolen goods, regardless of what brewery they are stolen from and the ad is still live on this site


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Are we going to take down all the corny keg ads, and affiliate threads offering these?  All are marked property of Britvic or Cantwell & Cochrane.

The cornies are sold legitately, the kegs in question were stolen, big difference, my issue is with the tolerance of a political undercurrent on the forum, whereby craft beer breweries are protected from criticism but everything else is fair game, if those kegs were from a craft brewery with a bit of tape thinly disguising the legitimate owner, then the ad would have been removed long ago,
Dempsey is entitled to his opinion, but you can't have it only one way, people need to be able to criticise, name and shame craft brewers in the same light,

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Have you had a post critising a craft brewery removed or censored?
I've never been aware of that happening on the forum if it has.

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on September 17, 2018, 11:17:40 AM

Quote from: cruiscinlan on September 17, 2018, 11:08:39 AM

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on September 15, 2018, 11:25:46 PM

Regarding my second point, rule 2 in the 'For Sale' rules states, it must be legal, whether plasterers, or builders etc used to steal kegs or not doesn't make it acceptable to facilitate the sale of stolen goods, regardless of what brewery they are stolen from and the ad is still live on this site


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Are we going to take down all the corny keg ads, and affiliate threads offering these?  All are marked property of Britvic or Cantwell & Cochrane.

The cornies are sold legitately, the kegs in question were stolen, big difference, my issue is with the tolerance of a political undercurrent on the forum, whereby craft beer breweries are protected from criticism but everything else is fair game, if those kegs were from a craft brewery with a bit of tape thinly disguising the legitimate owner, then the ad would have been removed long ago,
Dempsey is entitled to his opinion, but you can't have it only one way, people need to be able to criticise, name and shame craft brewers in the same light,

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How the [easy now] do you know the kegs are stolen? Just because someone sticks their name on something doesn't mean its their property for infinity. A keg is the same as a phone, a chair or anything else that can be for sale. Things can be sold to others. You are just speculating that it is stolen.

If anyone feels kegs have been removed from a licensed premises or indeed vandalized they should contact these people with information.

https://www.kegwatch.co.uk/

As far as i know unless you have written authority to take over ownership of a keg its theft. Obliviously not usually a issue unless its vandalized to a state that it cannot be used again for its purpose.

I'm sure if a copy of this letter is produced that will stop these terrible allegations. I have one myself  and it wasn't easy to get as you know yourself no doubt you have it and understand hassle to get one.

Quote from: Beerbuddha on September 17, 2018, 12:41:46 PM
If anyone feels kegs have been removed from a licensed premises or indeed vandalized they should contact these people with information.

https://www.kegwatch.co.uk/

As far as i know unless you have written authority to take over ownership of a keg its theft. Obliviously not usually a issue unless its vandalized to a state that it cannot be used again for its purpose.

I'm sure if a copy of this letter is produced that will stop these terrible allegations. I have one myself  and it wasn't easy to get as you know yourself no doubt you have it and understand hassle to get one.

That is informative but ultimately it is no different to any other item in the world, if its stolen it is stolen but without proof you don't know it was stolen. Why are unproven allegations allowed on the forum attacking another member? I would be banning SA for the alleging without any ounce of proof that a member is selling stolen goods!

I believe the keg advert was reported and removed. Problem solved.
It's usually a lot more effective to report a post than sit around throwing stones.

Back to the OP:
I agree, Guinness seems to have lost a bit of its charm. But I guess that must be what the masses want. Their job is to make as much money as possible by providing drinks that appeal to the most people. If the recipe changes a bit to accommodate that, so be it. Beamish is better anyway. Corcaigh Abú!
I still like Guinness more than most craft style stouts though. Too much unidentified weird stuff for me.

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on September 17, 2018, 11:17:40 AM

Quote from: cruiscinlan on September 17, 2018, 11:08:39 AM

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on September 15, 2018, 11:25:46 PM

Regarding my second point, rule 2 in the 'For Sale' rules states, it must be legal, whether plasterers, or builders etc used to steal kegs or not doesn't make it acceptable to facilitate the sale of stolen goods, regardless of what brewery they are stolen from and the ad is still live on this site


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Are we going to take down all the corny keg ads, and affiliate threads offering these?  All are marked property of Britvic or Cantwell & Cochrane.

The cornies are sold legitately, the kegs in question were stolen, big difference, my issue is with the tolerance of a political undercurrent on the forum, whereby craft beer breweries are protected from criticism but everything else is fair game, if those kegs were from a craft brewery with a bit of tape thinly disguising the legitimate owner, then the ad would have been removed long ago,
Dempsey is entitled to his opinion, but you can't have it only one way, people need to be able to criticise, name and shame craft brewers in the same light,

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There are 2 seperate issues here kegs and craft beer but they are being muddled up on the thread.

How precious Diageo are about kegs since you can't take them to recyclers anymore? There was a bar in North Dublin that switched to craft and asked Diageo on 4 seperate occasions over 3 months to come and collect and they didn't bother their arse, so I think in the end they were taken by a builder who drank there and they ended up on adverts.
I was talking to a famer over the weekend and he was telling me of another pal who sank 20 into cement as feeding stations for cows whilst they were being milked.
There was a bar in the south west that made lovely urinals from 3 shiny new craft kegs and posted pic on twitter with branding very obvious and the craft brewery sent them a bill.
With the cost of news kegs I'm surprised there isn't more punitive measures, maybe the macros are making too much money?
If anybody is selling kegs here with a black stripe around the middle and don't have legitimate provenance they they are breaking the law, I don't think anybody is disputing that.

On the topic of political its not an undercurrent as I have said above this is the NHC, we brew homebrewed beer we don't drink macro beer and are open about it, we support those who have come through our ranks, and slate them on whatsap if their beer is shite!
The difference being that for a micro 10 fellas saying in a 1000 craft drinker audience that a beer is shite, that would have massive commercial repercussions.
We bash Macro beer thats what we do! Why? On the basis that Macro are holding all the cards, the complete oligigopoly and stanglehold they have over the market and the way they conduct themselves commercially, granted some are much worse than others, yet craft only accounts for 5% of current beer volumes, but listening to the Macros you would think it was 50%. So personally I will always support choice and the underdog even if their product can sometimes be meah.

Looking at a related industry its interesting watching Jameson and their micro competitors, they are supporting them with base product and knowledge. Their rationale is that they want them to succeed with a quality product to preserve the quality in Irish whiskey and know that if their small competitors do well they will also be on the crest of that wave of growth instead of trying to defend market position and crush the small guy. Particularly important now as alcohol is being demonised and we will look back in 2050 like we do now on the smoking seventies and wonder wtf were we thinking swallowing toxins like alcohol.

Coming back to the op I think you missed the point that Dempsey was hankering for a good pint but was posting his frustration as to how far its slipped or the basis that he had them on a pedestal but is disappointed that they aren't the best anymore.

Haven't seen this much excitement in these parts for years, anyhow back to whatsap, I prefer Beamish myself these days when there is nothing else :P.

Quote from: CH on September 17, 2018, 01:38:25 PM
Coming back to the op I think you missed the point that Dempsey was hankering for a good pint but was posting his frustration as to how far its slipped or the basis that he had them on a pedestal but is disappointed that they aren't the best anymore.

Haven't seen this much excitement in these parts for years, anyhow back to whatsap, I prefer Beamish myself these days when there is nothing else :P.

The subject of sub par craft has come up before: https://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/the-beer-board/state-of-the-craft-beer-market-in-ireland/30/ - I think this was a fair thread.

When I drink in Ireland, I am usually far from any bar that stocks independent. Its important that the Macro options are decent and well priced even if they are unambitious. Declining Guinness isn't a big thumbs up for craft whatever, its a lack of incentive to go to the pub in the first place.

As others have commented, the craft session stouts havent bowled me over either. But I have a lot more appreciation for Beamish now.

Where I live in the UK, I can go crazy for craft whatever, being spoiled for choice. But almost every pub offers a reasonable choice of real ale, at least one decent lager option, decent sparkling cider, 'big-craft' like brewdog/meantime etc. Its very rare that you cant get at least one of those options. The options may not be world shattering, but you are in a pub to enjoy yourself, you shouldn't have to *tolerate* your drink options.

to quote from last post,

Very fancy !

I think I need to introduce you to Gin Mr D, Craft Gin of course

I refute any allegation that, in 2050, I'll be looking back on alcohol like it's some sort of demon. Minister Shane Ross can go DO ONE.

I haven't noticed Guinness getting much crapper, but then, perhaps, I'm a frog. I've recently acquired some nitrogen-heavy mixed gas, and I've made the standard Guinness clone, using literally every skill I have in my repertoire to produce an excellent pint. I'll be testing it out on seasoned Guinness drinkers. I'm hoping they'll tell me that Guinness is, indeed, now an inferior pint.

Just adding more variables to the argument, is it getting crapper? Or is the standard of keeping it getting worse? The Guinness line-cleaner doesn't come around half as often as they used to (I'm told), and with more and more pubs being turned into manager-led, rather than skilled landlord led, it's likely we'll see a fall in quality. I'm using a wide brush here, forgive me.

I did a bit of looking into the idea of keeping a good pint of Guinness. A lot of it is marketing bull, the rest not. We all know about pressure/temp/beer line length in order to get the pint in good condition because we all love cornies, but there's so much crap out there about how often to service the lines, or how close the keg needs to be to the tap. So many drinkers (knowledgable ones, too), think that the keg beneath the tap makes the best pint, but in order to drop the pressure by 34PSI there's going to be the equivalent of 10' of 3/8" beer line, it's just going to be coiled up.

The main, fun things that I learned though, are about the appearance of Guinness (which is absolutely all Diageo care about, not its taste, which wasn't mentioned ONCE in all the literature they put up). If it has a brown head, not white, then the beer is old, or the lines dirty. If your glass has bubbles on it, it is literally filthy, and if the head is too small, then it's too cold, or too large, too warm. Or something. See pg 25 on the link below.

Another thing you'll notice, as well as the fact it's 50% about appearances, is that it's 50% about profit.

https://www.guinnesscelebrate.com/media/pdf/guinness_quality_brochure.pdf

After I read that, I have become very fussy about my Guinness. But then, one of the nicer pints I've had recently was brown and dirty. So what the fuck do I know? Hope I didn't stray too far off-topic.

And a post-script:

This is C&P'd from page 27 of that link, refering to the ritual of the two part pour, etc.

"A ritual to attract the herd".

They really respect the consumer.

Dempsey paid the ultimate complement to G and gave me a G Clone about 2 years ago with acid malt in it for the twang, served on nitro it was a lovely full bodied silky smooth sessionable pint.

Fuck it that does it I'm brewing a stout next week

70-20-10

Those your vital statistics luv? Or a fertiliser?

70% pale , 20 flaked & 10 roasted makes a pretty close Guinness clone.

TY, no acid?

Must try that meself. Not brewed dark in a while.
In wondering is it the bad weather has me on stout this past few weeks.
I'm quite partial to a Beamish when I'm out.

70% pale   20% flaked  8% roast   2% acid.

But why would you want to. Everyone knows Guinness is shite.  ;D

I have acid - I'll add that.

Balls! I did the BEST BITTER ratio, 80:10:10! Well, I shall just have to do it again. I knew there was a reason I came here.

I used Lactic Acid to remove excess alkalinity from the water, so I'm anticipating a similar result to acidulated malt, and I don't have any extraneous sulphites.

Quote from: LordEoin on September 17, 2018, 01:23:07 PM
Back to the OP:
I agree, Guinness seems to have lost a bit of its charm. But I guess that must be what the masses want. Their job is to make as much money as possible by providing drinks that appeal to the most people. If the recipe changes a bit to accommodate that, so be it. Beamish is better anyway. Corcaigh Abú!
I still like Guinness more than most craft style stouts though. Too much unidentified weird stuff for me.

I thought it was just me that felt that. I think since I've switched to enjoying craft beers more, It's been a bit more time between my Guinness fix. I think that the taste has changed a bit. Hard to put my finger on it, but it's definitely more bland to my pallet. I still will drink a few when I'm out, it's not terrible or even bad, just different, but for me, different in a bad way. I'm sure the masses are enjoying it more though.

I once heard (youtube video) Guinness described or compared to a lap dancer....  The quote was "amazing on the outside, nothing on the inside"....  made me giggle, but that's what I think off these days when I have a pint..

All fur and no knickers lovely!

Quote from: nigel_c on September 17, 2018, 11:11:12 PM
70% pale , 20 flaked & 10 roasted makes a pretty close Guinness clone.

Add in 10% Brown there as well and you suddenly have the best stout ever. (tm)

Don't be giving away all the good recipes.

Quote from: molc on September 18, 2018, 10:50:10 PM
Add in 10% Brown there as well and you suddenly have the best stout ever. (tm)

70% pale, 20% flaked, 10% roasted, 10% brown, got it  :)

Quote from: molc on September 18, 2018, 10:50:10 PM

Quote from: nigel_c on September 17, 2018, 11:11:12 PM
70% pale , 20 flaked & 10 roasted makes a pretty close Guinness clone.

Add in 10% Brown there as well and you suddenly have the best stout ever. (tm)

North County Brewers, always giving it 110%.

10% Brown?

do you even brown bro?

Quote from: DEMPSEY on September 14, 2018, 03:22:26 PM
Diageo I'm not a frog,
I was in a pub last night and as often the case with a limited choice to choose from I decided to have a pint of Guinness. The beer was served fine,there was no off flavours but as I drank a few it was apparent that the bean counters are continuing to drive this beer to a dumb downed shadow of what it once was, a great beer.
they apply the cook a frog approach by making continuing slight changes hoping that beer drinkers will not notice.

Well I notice.

This beer today is a thin bodied low gravity ale with low IBU'S probably in the teens. No amount of pixie dust sprinkled by their marketing people can hide the fact that they have gone past their Guinness light beer and have now got it to be Guinness Extra light.

Just what the fuck has happened to Guinness? Several friends and I have been debating this for years. The pint you get nowadays is unrecognisable to the pint 15 or 20 years ago. It's colder, thinner and has less taste.

I remember when Coldflow / Extra Cold came out and everyone and their granny started drinking it. Even young girls that normally drank Bicardi Breezers or bottles of Hooch were suddenly asking for a half pint of Extra Cold. People would ask for Coldflow and when they were told there wasn't any, would leave and go to another bar instead of having a "regular" Guinness. Twats!

But then, all of a sudden, Extra Cold was no more. I found this extremely odd considering how huge a success it had been for Guinness. I'm not exactly sure when this was, because I didn't drink Extra Cold, but the "regular" Guinness started tasting a bit different. Finding a good pint became more and more difficult. ATM a really good pint of G is as rare as hens teeth. I even went on the Guinness tour at the brewery about 10 years ago and the pints in the 2 top bars were nothing special. They were thin and bland. I actually had a nicer pint in the pub down the road when I left.

Rightly or wrongly, I've come to the conclusion that all G is now Coldflow (that, plus I reckon they've dicked around with the recipe). Why would Guinness get rid of something that was so successful, for so long? That would be like they weren't interested in profit...

Like all things macro they make their real profit by cutting costs.

Serving colder masks odd flavour s like dirty lines, so you don't have to clean them so often.

You can probably save a bit of money by simplifying your mash and adding the extra character with extract.

By cutting body you get more mass market appeal, the bigger market just wants clean thin pints to chug, I spose we have lager to thank for that

Quote from: phildo79 on October 11, 2018, 12:54:45 PMRightly or wrongly, I've come to the conclusion that all G is now Coldflow (that, plus I reckon they've dicked around with the recipe). Why would Guinness get rid of something that was so successful, for so long? That would be like they weren't interested in profit...

Extra cold still exists in the Britain. What I think happened is they just gradually turned the chiller down on regular Guinness to bring it more inline with the lagers. Afaik, it's served between 5 and 6c now so wouldn't quite be at extra cold levels, but not far off. Diageo are having to compete with ice cold Coors, Heineken etc so it's no surprise they are dumbing the beer down. It really is a poor stout though.

Quote from: irish_goat on October 11, 2018, 04:41:05 PM

Quote from: phildo79 on October 11, 2018, 12:54:45 PMRightly or wrongly, I've come to the conclusion that all G is now Coldflow (that, plus I reckon they've dicked around with the recipe). Why would Guinness get rid of something that was so successful, for so long? That would be like they weren't interested in profit...

Extra cold still exists in the Britain. What I think happened is they just gradually turned the chiller down on regular Guinness to bring it more inline with the lagers. Afaik, it's served between 5 and 6c now so wouldn't quite be at extra cold levels, but not far off. Diageo are having to compete with ice cold Coors, Heineken etc so it's no surprise they are dumbing the beer down. It really is a poor stout though.

I actually stumble across a bar that serves cracking G not that long ago. It reminded me of the G from 15+ years ago. It's in Park, Derry. Now, there are only 3 pubs in Park. 1 doesn't open until the Vivo shop beside it closes and 1 doesn't sell Guinness. But the other does and it's the best pint of G that I've had in years. I think it's called the Bridge House.

But it's a sad state of affairs when you have to travel into the heart of the Sperrins (basically the arsehole of nowhere) to get a good pint of G. Even the G in Donegal is shite now. And for a long time, it was one of the best counties for good G.

I'm in Park next month for a wedding. Shocked there's a pub there that doesn't do Guinness. The pint you got in the Bridge House is the same pint every other pub in the country sells though...

Maybe the lines have character

Its a good job it doesn't taste the same though. Its baffling how there is so much difference. Check it out when you get there. Avoid the Guinness in the Rio grand pub. It tastes like shite. The boozer facing it though is worth a visit. Tony Lynch you call it. The girl that owns it is a real character but it's like you've walked into a pub in Royston Vasey! She only sells one draught beer and can talk the leg off a stool. But the pub has been in her family for 300 years. An interesting experience.