Was reading through the BJCP guidelines and under
9D. Irish Red Ale it says:
QuoteComments: Sometimes brewed as a lager.
Anyone able to cast some light here? Which brands are actually lagers?
Ah. Does that qualify as an Irish Red though? Seems to have won awards as an American Amber Lager.
I would consider the cold temperature fermentation/conditioning to be more significant in the formation of a lager than the yeast.
And yes, the BJCP style guide is not exactly perfect.
If you talk to Germans they talk about lagering beers(gelagertes Bier) and lager is not a style. They go by top fermenting yeast (obergaerig) or bottom fermenting (untergaerig) so if you asked me from a German perspective I'd say treatment rather than the yeast. A German looks at you funny if you request lager.
Sent using a complex system of semaphore and ninjas.
I did find it funny on their forum that Nottingham was being used for "lagers".
Their recipes also tend not to specify a yeast beyond top or bottom fermenting type.
I seem to remember along time ago someone telling me that Smithwicks yeast was a bottom fermenting yeast. Do not know if this is fact :-\
Quote from: DEMPSEY on October 01, 2013, 01:01:09 PM
I seem to remember along time ago someone telling me that Smithwicks yeast was a bottom fermenting yeast. Do not know if this is fact :-\
Now that you mention it, I heard a pretty senior figure in the micro industry say that before. Wouldn't surprise me anyway.
Quote from: irish_goat on October 01, 2013, 01:34:19 PM
Quote from: DEMPSEY on October 01, 2013, 01:01:09 PM
I seem to remember along time ago someone telling me that Smithwicks yeast was a bottom fermenting yeast. Do not know if this is fact :-\
Now that you mention it, I heard a pretty senior figure in the micro industry say that before. Wouldn't surprise me anyway.
Me thinks it was Oliver Hughes,Porterhouse. :-\
Nah it was someone else I was chatting to.
Quote from: irish_goat on October 01, 2013, 09:14:32 AM
Was reading through the BJCP guidelines and under 9D. Irish Red Ale it says:
QuoteComments: Sometimes brewed as a lager.
Anyone able to cast some light here? Which brands are actually lagers?
The Red Irish ale has a dry finish from the addition of roast barley, therefore a dry finish with a lager yeast will assist with this principle.
my Irish red ale for the bernard shaw is using the same yeast as the harp lager brewed for the shaw and is looking and tasting very good at this stage :) Aim ..a red with toasty, caramelly, toffee taste and aroma and drying to the finish with a hint of sweet chocolate finish..Ye ytell me in a few weeks! :)
Quote from: Il Tubo on October 01, 2013, 02:29:09 PM
Quote from: DEMPSEY on October 01, 2013, 01:01:09 PM
I seem to remember along time ago someone telling me that Smithwicks yeast was a bottom fermenting yeast. Do not know if this is fact :-\
Pea brain! We had a conversation about Smithwicks yeast last night, including how they've promised us some! It's quite possibly the same as Guinness yeast, but it is fermented at ale yeast temperatures. I think they said around 20C.
Et tu Brute. I know we had a conversation last night about Their yeast and in it I said that I recall someone telling me it was a bottom fermenter a lonnng tyme ago :). Back in the days when ships were made of wood and men were mad of iron. :P
All the Harviestoun brewery beers are produced with a bottom-fermenting yeast. Schiehallion is the only one sold as a lager.
Quote from: UpsidedownA (Andrew) on October 01, 2013, 09:20:25 PM
All the Harviestoun brewery beers are produced with a bottom-fermenting yeast. Schiehallion is the only one sold as a lager.
Interesting, didn't know that.
Brewer talks about it here.
http://books.google.ie/books?id=SHh-4M_QxEsC&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=harviestoun+bottom+fermenting+yeast&source=bl&ots=S1TePwC9Th&sig=xw38DOh-JbffwuFwiSqf47KQMtU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SzFLUq-pJcST0QXlu4HYBQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=harviestoun%20bottom%20fermenting%20yeast&f=false
He says it's not about top or bottom, more to do with the type of fermenting vessel and where you add the yeast. Wonder what they do that's special.
I thought Killian's was held in the same sort of regard in the US as Watney's Red Barrel?
FWIW French breweries make biere de garde, an "ale" style with lager yeast because that's what they have access to and it's what their breweries are set up to deal with. I'd always assumed Killian's was a similar deal.
I'd wondered a bit how a "Irish" red with WLP 400 might work out - I'd imagine that the diacetyl might play quite well with it.
Quote from: irish_goat on October 01, 2013, 09:38:16 PM
Quote from: UpsidedownA (Andrew) on October 01, 2013, 09:20:25 PM
All the Harviestoun brewery beers are produced with a bottom-fermenting yeast. Schiehallion is the only one sold as a lager.
Interesting, didn't know that.
Brewer talks about it here.
http://books.google.ie/books?id=SHh-4M_QxEsC&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=harviestoun+bottom+fermenting+yeast&source=bl&ots=S1TePwC9Th&sig=xw38DOh-JbffwuFwiSqf47KQMtU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SzFLUq-pJcST0QXlu4HYBQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=harviestoun%20bottom%20fermenting%20yeast&f=false
He says it's not about top or bottom, more to do with the type of fermenting vessel and where you add the yeast. Wonder what they do that's special.
I wish I knew more about this vessel aspect. Cylindro-conicals are industry-standard because they are well suited to industrial processes, but they put the yeast under more pressure. They are supposed to suppress esters, I think and open vessels allow more ester development. I don't know if I've got that right, but the same beer is supposed to taste different if brewed in different vessels.
The yeast circulates up the middle and down the sides distributing the yeast and sugar evenly. This optimises the ferment speed after that I dont know why conicals are so popular other than they are great for dropping off trub, excess yeast, preventing autolysis ( dead yeast decomposing) and racking easily