Irish Red Ale/Lager

[irish_goat]

Was reading through the BJCP guidelines and under 9D. Irish Red Ale it says:

Comments: Sometimes brewed as a lager.

Anyone able to cast some light here? Which brands are actually lagers?

[irish_goat]

Ah. Does that qualify as an Irish Red though? Seems to have won awards as an American Amber Lager.

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

I would consider the cold temperature fermentation/conditioning to be more significant in the formation of a lager than the yeast.

And yes, the BJCP style guide is not exactly perfect.

[Eoin]

If you talk to Germans they talk about lagering beers(gelagertes Bier) and lager is not a style. They go by top fermenting yeast (obergaerig) or bottom fermenting (untergaerig) so if you asked me from a German perspective I'd say treatment rather than the yeast. A German looks at you funny if you request lager.

Sent using a complex system of semaphore and ninjas.

[Eoin]

I did find it funny on their forum that Nottingham was being used for "lagers".

Their recipes also tend not to specify a yeast beyond top or bottom fermenting type.

[DEMPSEY]

I seem to remember along time ago someone telling me that Smithwicks yeast was a bottom fermenting yeast. Do not know if this is fact

[irish_goat]

I seem to remember along time ago someone telling me that Smithwicks yeast was a bottom fermenting yeast. Do not know if this is fact

Now that you mention it, I heard a pretty senior figure in the micro industry say that before. Wouldn't surprise me anyway.

[DEMPSEY]

I seem to remember along time ago someone telling me that Smithwicks yeast was a bottom fermenting yeast. Do not know if this is fact

Now that you mention it, I heard a pretty senior figure in the micro industry say that before. Wouldn't surprise me anyway.

Me thinks it was Oliver Hughes,Porterhouse.

[irish_goat]

Nah it was someone else I was chatting to.

[brenmurph]

Was reading through the BJCP guidelines and under 9D. Irish Red Ale it says:

Comments: Sometimes brewed as a lager.

Anyone able to cast some light here? Which brands are actually lagers?

The Red Irish ale has a dry finish from the addition of roast barley, therefore a dry finish with a lager yeast will assist with this principle.
my Irish red ale for the bernard shaw  is using the same yeast as the harp lager brewed for the shaw and is looking  and tasting very good at this stage   Aim ..a red with toasty, caramelly, toffee taste and aroma and drying to the finish with a hint of sweet chocolate finish..Ye ytell me in a few weeks!

[DEMPSEY]

I seem to remember along time ago someone telling me that Smithwicks yeast was a bottom fermenting yeast. Do not know if this is fact

Pea brain! We had a conversation about Smithwicks yeast last night, including how they've promised us some! It's quite possibly the same as Guinness yeast, but it is fermented at ale yeast temperatures. I think they said around 20C.

Et tu Brute. I know we had a conversation last night about Their yeast and in it I said that I recall someone telling me it was a bottom fermenter a lonnng tyme ago . Back in the days when ships were made of wood and men were mad of iron.

[UpsidedownA (Andrew)]

All the Harviestoun brewery beers are produced with a bottom-fermenting yeast. Schiehallion is the only one sold as a lager.

[irish_goat]

All the Harviestoun brewery beers are produced with a bottom-fermenting yeast. Schiehallion is the only one sold as a lager.

Interesting, didn't know that.

Brewer talks about it here.
http://books.google.ie/books?id=SHh-4M_QxEsC&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=harviestoun+bottom+fermenting+yeast&source=bl&ots=S1TePwC9Th&sig=xw38DOh-JbffwuFwiSqf47KQMtU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SzFLUq-pJcST0QXlu4HYBQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=harviestoun%20bottom%20fermenting%20yeast&f=false

He says it's not about top or bottom, more to do with the type of fermenting vessel and where you add the yeast. Wonder what they do that's special.

[mr hoppy]

I thought Killian's was held in the same sort of regard in the US as Watney's Red Barrel?

FWIW French breweries make biere de garde, an "ale" style with lager yeast because that's what they have access to and it's what their breweries are set up to deal with. I'd always assumed Killian's was a similar deal.

I'd wondered a bit how a "Irish" red with WLP 400 might work out - I'd imagine that the diacetyl might play quite well with it.

[UpsidedownA (Andrew)]

All the Harviestoun brewery beers are produced with a bottom-fermenting yeast. Schiehallion is the only one sold as a lager.

Interesting, didn't know that.

Brewer talks about it here.
http://books.google.ie/books?id=SHh-4M_QxEsC&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=harviestoun+bottom+fermenting+yeast&source=bl&ots=S1TePwC9Th&sig=xw38DOh-JbffwuFwiSqf47KQMtU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SzFLUq-pJcST0QXlu4HYBQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=harviestoun%20bottom%20fermenting%20yeast&f=false

He says it's not about top or bottom, more to do with the type of fermenting vessel and where you add the yeast. Wonder what they do that's special.

I wish I knew more about this vessel aspect. Cylindro-conicals are industry-standard because they are well suited to industrial processes, but they put the yeast under more pressure. They are supposed to suppress esters, I think and open vessels allow more ester development. I don't know if I've got that right, but the same beer is supposed to taste different if brewed in different vessels.