National Homebrew Club Ireland

Would be cool if we had a section on the forum for clone recipes of Irish beers. While they'll never be 100% correct I think it'd be a useful resource.

I have recipes for a Galway Hooker clone and Metalman Pale Ale clone that I reckon are fairly accurate, tho the Metalman one less so now that they stopped using Amarillo.

Anyone else interested?

Have some information I've picked but I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be sharing it on open forum.
Some told by brewers in 1 to 1 where they was an understanding it would go no further.

I did come across a recipe Cormac posted on Jims well before he went commercial for a red ale that I believe is copper coast  :o

Ok after rereading it (its a while since I saw it) I guess it is where copper coast started, before the tweaking.
Still a good reference for an Irish red though

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4829

Notice a few familiar handles in this thread  ;)

Tube any chance of the galway hooker clone? By far my favorite Irish craft beer!!

Thanks

Great thankd. Would agree it may not be best to post on boards.

Would be interested in the Metalman Pale ale recipe.  Could try it with Kohatu or Ahtanum maybe...

Hops at the minute are magnum for bittering Summit and Cascade late and dry

Will pick the ingredients up for that brew. Thanks Tube.

I just tasted metal an at a wedding in Waterford, loved it! Unfortionatly no-where near me sells it, so I'd love to try something similar if possible.

Any Wrasslers XXXX recipes out there?

There are least two books printed about clone brews.

The ones I have are:

Clonebrews by Tess and Mark Szamatulski
&
North American Clone Brews by Scott R. Russel

Would it not be awesome for the NHC to create:

[size=14]"Irish Clone Beers by the NHC"[/size].

The way it would work is to approach the micros for their basic recipes and any info they are prepared to give away. I know some are prepared to share. Others will not.

We then list those recipes as definitives and lock the thread.

We would still brew them up I'm sure. But IMO they are what we have been told and should not be tweaked.

For the others we make up the clone recipe ourselves either from existing recipes published on the NHC and other sites.

Then a few experienced brewers ( a job for the regional groups ) brew them up, taste then, compare notes and then the recipe is tweaked, brewed again etc. and finally  published as a "Official tested, NHC Clone" and the thread locked.

If we get enough recipes (there are after all a huge number of Irish beers currently being produced) then we COULD publish the book to world-wide acclaim.

WHO would be willing to take on the role of editor?:

Initially the editor would structure the Forum:

Sticky: Rules of Forum

Identify the beers to start with, list them as threads.

Only the editor or his appointed contact who knows the owners well would contact the brewers. With recipes received they would be published and locked.

The empty threads would be initially updated by the members who would publish the recipe(s).

Editor would then ask the regional brewing groups to select a beer and brew it, taste and tweak.

Then the recipe would be posted on the thread as the only post and then the thread would be locked.

Over time the forum would evolve into the recipe book.

This idea would give great impetus and focus to the regional brewing groups and a solid pupose to the NHC.

Already I have book 2 in mind: "Cloned Irish Beers of the Past" where we re-create the forgotten great beers from Irelands Past, including how Guiness, Smithwicks, Beamish, Murphys USED to be before the industrials moved in.

What do we think lads?

Will

I like the idea Will, I think that the recipes should be posted as front page articles as well and it would be great to have a book. There is definitely a need for some good books about brewing clone beers!

Anything ever come of this thread? A nice tried and tested clone recipe section would be class. Could make nice front page write up's as well.

Quote from: Tube on December 10, 2012, 03:38:45 PM
Would you believe my wife suggested a very similar thing.

It was not me ye saw jumping from the upstairs window when you arrived home unexpectedly one afternoon 8)

I found the harp recipe from 1962, happened by a page anyway with the main recipe; the info there may be of interest, looking at the recipe it would have made a lovely beer, styrian hops and  loadsa malt...

Id love to clone a Phoenix ale ( from waterford I tink) as I remenber it in bottle in tramore when I was barely legal ( tthats 35ish years ago) it stuck in my head as a creamy sweetish malty ale)

Also Macardles I remember  when I used to travel to the north for all the cheap gear years ago we used to stop at the border in a pub and had a few on the way up there, was a lovely ale as I remember it.

Would be a great topic for a meet up if we all bring whatever we know about old Irish beers before Supposedly guinness bought them all and closed then down by making bad batches so everyone stopped drinking them!

Im very interested

Happened by it a year ago  I think it was a link from googling beer courses, just popped up on a forum.  If anyone has software that may play around the reverse of the page ( can be seen faint) seems to have brewing protocol as well. The ingredients alone as I said suggest potentially a really nice brew Styrian (hallertau) Im presuming that means early season styrian?

Caramel do ye reckon thats liquid toffee or referring to "caramel" malt  remering its a recipe from 50 years ago?

Harp lager  clone 

9.5 lb British 2-row lager malt
10 oz 10°L crystal malt

mashed for 90 min

90 min boil
2 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker at 60 min
0.5 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker at 15 min
0.5 oz Saaz at 15 min
0.25 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker at 5 min
0.25 oz Saaz at 5 min

Wyeast 2206 (Bavarian Lager Yeast) at 8-11°C
and then lager for a month, begin lagering at 7°C and slowly decrease the temperature to 1°C over 2 week period. Diactyl rest at 15°C after lagering is complete.

And then from Barclay Perkins

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.ie/2009/09/lets-brew-wednesday-1962-harp-lager.html

this might give more incite

And to finish it all off  on harp from me

http://lager-frenzy.com/2009/09/30/the-debt-lager-owes-to-guinness/

Well Adeflesk, thanks a million, what wonderful info and links.

Lads this could be a new part of our club, revising old master brews / historic brews, I'm certainly going to try the old Harp recipe, maybe tomorrow.

Adeflesk thanks a million, where u from and whats ur real name? 

Hi there down in Killarney Co kerry and I have an unusual name Adrian Corsini,   remember it only takes one italian to give you a name like that  ;)
love trawling the internet for information,  my latest find is chop and brew, channel on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCsijuRpPR8
sorry for going off topic

Quote from: AdeFlesk on May 04, 2013, 05:35:47 PM
Harp lager  clone 

9.5 lb British 2-row lager malt
10 oz 10°L crystal malt

mashed for 90 min

90 min boil
2 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker at 60 min
0.5 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker at 15 min
0.5 oz Saaz at 15 min
0.25 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker at 5 min
0.25 oz Saaz at 5 min

Wyeast 2206 (Bavarian Lager Yeast) at 8-11°C
and then lager for a month, begin lagering at 7°C and slowly decrease the temperature to 1°C over 2 week period. Diactyl rest at 15°C after lagering is complete.

For the Harp clone, any idea why would we use hersbruker rather then styrian goldings as in in the original recipe? Arnt these hops quite different to each other?

The recipe  you posted up was listed 1961,  looks like they changed it as in the log book it clearly states Hallertauer and Saaz hops.
They were going for more of an American style then German.  The recipe I posted first is from a book called Clone brews.

Just dragging this up as I've been thinking about doing some clones recently..

The Irish micros don't seem to be very forthcoming with their recipes, and I think it's a rather peculiar stance they have. Most of them give no indication about IBUs, hop varieties, grain varieties - either on the bottle or on the website. Contrast this with the American craft breweries. Look at the huge names in craft beer that are openly handing over their recipes to the likes of Jamil Zainasheff and the Brewing Network in order for them to be cloned. Wychwood, Fullers, Stone, Rogue to name just a few.

I've also heard tales of homebrewers approaching Irish micro brewers for recipes and being told to flip off.

Probably someone who didn't know him asked Cuilan for a recipe. Would expect a more strongly worded response.

I'd be curious if anyone had a recipe that approaches Celebration stout, the 7% version as I believe there is also a 10% version which I haven't tried.

Those interested in cloning some Whitewater recipes should take a look at the following threads on Jim's. In particular, there's a homebrewer from Antrim called Jymbo who's spent a lot of time attempting to clone some of these beers.

Clotworthy Dobbin
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41155
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=25198
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6859&start=0

Belfast Ale
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=15279
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23158

I'm more interested in getting a clone recipe for the Copperhead, such a nice beer.

Quote from: Eoin on June 28, 2013, 08:13:17 AM
I'd be curious if anyone had a recipe that approaches Celebration stout, the 7% version as I believe there is also a 10% version which I haven't tried.

Porterhouse? The 10% was a once off in 2006 to celebrate their 10th anniversary. I still have a bottle of it  8)

This might be an idea, if anyone has what they believe to be an accurate clone, they post the recipe. Two of the homebrew clubs choose to brew that recipe and produce it for a tasting at one of the meets feedback posted on the site and if it is good from both clubs it gets accepted. This would mean you could get feedback on approx 4 recipes per month if each club does one recipe.

Quote from: delzep on June 28, 2013, 03:51:15 PM

Quote from: Eoin on June 28, 2013, 08:13:17 AM
I'd be curious if anyone had a recipe that approaches Celebration stout, the 7% version as I believe there is also a 10% version which I haven't tried.

Porterhouse? The 10% was a once off in 2006 to celebrate their 10th anniversary. I still have a bottle of it  8)

Yeah porterhouse, no recipes about?

About the Copper Coast clone/work in progress, I was in the Dungarvan brewery a few weeks ago snooping around on a tour - Safale 04 and 05 were the only two yeast strains I saw in boxes

Ah but your never saw the boxes in the back or the tubs in the fridge ;)

This is true - I was too busy sampling the awesome beer to do any real detective work  ;D

Good save  :D

It's mahon falls I want to clone. Fabulous seasonal.

End of the day it appears there are very few viable clones about.

I would not blame breweries for not giving out their recipes, most chefs are the same, you don't hand off your business to someone else, when it's how you earn your living, especially not in such a small market as Ireland. In the US the market is so large they have less worries about handing off their recipes.

I always thought half the fun of clone brewing was trying to clone the brew not just copy the recipe.  .

most brewery have no problem telling you whats in it ..(hops and grains) but I would never expect the whole schedule from them. Plus like I said it takes the fun out of it in my opinion.

Most of these clone books are just a educational adoption from a vague description from a brewer any way lol

Quote from: Il Tubo on July 12, 2013, 04:22:57 PM

Quote from: imark on July 10, 2013, 08:16:10 PM
It's mahon falls I want to clone. Fabulous seasonal.

What yeast is in Mahon Falls? Take a stab.

I dont have a bottle to hand but I'd be leaning towards a yeast like Notty if had to have a stab at it.

Any ideas on the Bo Bristle IPA recipe? The newer release rather than the original IPA.

B&C has it the odd time. Cassidy's, Westmoreland Street has it on permanent afaik. I'm not mad on it but it sells very well anytime we had it in. Not sure what hops are in it but the beer aroma reminds me of Punk. Unfortunately the taste does not.

Farringtons sell it also

I tried it back in march at the craft beer ifsc thingy. Was looking throught the craft beer festival website when it got me thinking of it.
Far as I remember it was one of the best I tried in march and I had a fair few pints. Looking forward to it again and was looking for a bit more info on it.

Yeah it was in the original version but it was relaunched in march with a new recipe.

I don't think it's plausible to expect to get a recipe off a brewer who is trying to make a living off that recipe. With the exception of perhaps the Fran. Well, I have (personally) been a little disappointed in how the older established breweries are not terribly friendly to the little man, many forgetting they were once humble homebrewers, too. Was just reading an article about Boston Brewing Co. (Sam Adams) and how they help out other brewers in the states, provide micro finance loans to new upstart craft breweries, and arrange group buys so everyone can get the hops they need -- no one quite that friendly over here, I'm afraid (not yet anyway, we're going to change that, right Spud?)

Besides, figuring out the recipe yourself is the challenge you are presented with to prove your mettle as a competent brewer. Asking to be given the answer is cheating, right? I think a clone brew book is only a good idea if we come up with the clones ourselves, and even then it would probably have to be intentionally slightly off or the breweries would be a bit annoyed.

Quote from: Il Tubo on August 11, 2013, 10:43:55 PM
Quality post, but chances are if you did get the exact recipe it wouldn't taste the same on your home set-up anyway.

I don't agree about the recipes having to be slightly off as you're not going to make any material difference. Like when the recipe of Coke was apparently up for sale... makes no odds as there will only be one drink called Coke.

Well, it probably wouldn't be exactly the same on a homebrew system, but I would think the worry would more be that another brewery might snatch up the recipe. It's not a big worry for well-established brands (the Coke's if you will) but the younger brands who don't have much market penetration outside their locality might not have the confidence to put their recipe out there for anyone in the world to see.

Found a couple of old 750ml bottles of O'Haras Celebration stout (BB May 2009) that were sadly empty....on the back label though it mentions using Northdown and fuggles if thats any use to anyone?

O'Hara's Celebration was the precursor for Leann Follain, very similar recipe. We had a bottle at a Beoir meetup a few months ago. Few years out of date but it still tasted fantastic.

Quote from: Dube on November 05, 2012, 04:48:42 PM
Would be cool if we had a section on the forum for clone recipes of Irish beers. While they'll never be 100% correct I think it'd be a useful resource.

I have recipes for a Galway Hooker clone and Metalman Pale Ale clone that I reckon are fairly accurate, tho the Metalman one less so now that they stopped using Amarillo.

Anyone else interested?

Sorry to bump an ancient thread but I was wondering if you still had thise Dube? I was drinking Metalman again at the weekend and I'm still amazed how tasty it is for such a low gravity. I'd love to give it a go.

Do a search for Ciderhead's Metalman clone. It's excellent, and despite deliberately being brewed a few points lower than the commercial beer (it was for the summer session comp), it was absolutely spot-on.

Ahh no crystal, interesting. Thanks a mil. I'm definitely going to try get a batch of this one for when the keg buy comes in.  :)

Metalman has some Summit hops for bittering. The cask version is usually dry hopped (with different hops) but the keg version is not.

The original Metalman recipe was a Cascade & Amarillo beer, but according to Grainne Walsh in the "interview" I did with her last year, it hasn't had any Amarillo since the shortage a few years back. Summit is the other flavour/aroma hop these days.

Quote from: Bubbles on October 07, 2014, 03:23:59 PM
Do a search for Ciderhead's Metalman clone. It's excellent, and despite deliberately being brewed a few points lower than the commercial beer (it was for the summer session comp), it was absolutely spot-on.

Oops. Meant to say Ciderheads Galway Hooker clone, not Metalman.

I'm glad this thread has been resurrected. With all the new brewerys opened in the last few years we are spoilt for choice.

We be great if we had the basics that people could add to.

Eg. Metalman Pale ale: ABV , IBU , Malts, hop additions.
      Portethouse Hop Head : ABV , IBU , Malts , hop additions.

Most brewers are pretty happy to give a few clues on recipe and if they give enough out we can patch them together. Plus an educated guess from ourselves  ;)

Would love to try a foam and fury clone if someone had any suggestions.

Hop Bomb posted the hop bill for f&f a couple of months back...

FWH with chinook.
Galena at start of the boil.
Chinook & Pacific Jade at half way point
Mosaic with 10 or 15 mins to go
More Mosaic at flame out.
Dry hop is with simcoe  2g per litre and 3g per litre.

Quote from: Bubbles on October 07, 2014, 04:53:57 PM

Quote from: Bubbles on October 07, 2014, 03:23:59 PM
Do a search for Ciderhead's Metalman clone. It's excellent, and despite deliberately being brewed a few points lower than the commercial beer (it was for the summer session comp), it was absolutely spot-on.

Oops. Meant to say Ciderheads Galway Hooker clone, not Metalman.

Was wondering why I couldn't find it.  :o


I could have imagined this but I think Chris from GB talked a bit about OFAF on the Brewing Network podcast. I might have re-listen and see if there are any other clues.

Quote from: Bubbles on October 07, 2014, 06:17:24 PM
Hop Bomb posted the hop bill for f&f a couple of months back...

FWH with chinook.
Galena at start of the boil.
Chinook & Pacific Jade at half way point
Mosaic with 10 or 15 mins to go
More Mosaic at flame out.
Dry hop is with simcoe  2g per litre and 3g per litre.

Very interesting. Going to try my first Pliny clone over Christmas, so if that goes well, might try to do a F&F clone then with the same malt bill...

By the way, Metalman are reported to use Nottingham in their pale ale. You'd want to be fermenting it pretty cool though, to keep the esters to a minimum.

Quote from: Bubbles on October 07, 2014, 06:22:57 PM
By the way, Metalman are reported to use Nottingham in their pale ale. You'd want to be fermenting it pretty cool though, to keep the esters to a minimum.

Easier said than done without good temp control. I'm using Notty for the first time at the moment in an IPA and its gone nuts with the heat it creates. It heated from 14 to 18 in a couple of hours in my swamp cooler once it got started.

As long as it stays around 20C you're grand. Most yeast strains will throw off flavours if they're allowed to ferment outside their comfort zone, but notty, fermented hot, is particularly rank.

Gimme a clone of Porterhouse Dublin Pale gimme gimme gimme gimme  :-*

Anyone know what the IBUs for MM are?  Gonna switch the hops for Summit, mainly cos I have used all my Amarillo.

Thought I'd post this for anyone interested in doing a clone of Galway Bay Chocolate Milk Stout. The recipe was given out by Galway Bay's head brewer Chris when he was interviewed on the Brewing Network a few weeks ago.

Nice to get a recipe for an Irish craft beer that actually comes from the source, although he did throw in a comment that the recipe would "send you in the right direction".. Probably pretty close though.

OG 1.060 (with the lactose contributing 7 pts)
FG: 1.025

65% Maris Otter Pale Malt
9% Chocolate Malt
5% Flaked Barley
5% Brown Malt
4% Crystal Malt 40L
4% Malted Oats
6% Vienna Malt
2% Roasted Barley

Mash at 67.5C

Hopping is single bittering addition at 60 mins giving 34 IBUs. Chris recommends any clean bittering hop like Magnum or Warrior.

Late in the boil, probably 10 mins just to sanitise, add:
23g per litre Lactose
300g "organic chocolate powder" (for a 19 litre brewlength)

Ferment at 20C using Danstar Nottingham
Cold-condition for 4-5 weeks

Quote from: Qs on October 07, 2014, 09:35:41 PM
Anyone know what the IBUs for MM are?  Gonna switch the hops for Summit, mainly cos I have used all my Amarillo.

I don't think it's ever been revealed by the brewer, but I suspect you wouldn't be too far off with 35-40.

There's no Amarillo in MM anymore, as was revealed above. So Summit would be a better choice anyway.

Quote from: Bubbles on October 07, 2014, 06:17:24 PM
Hop Bomb posted the hop bill for f&f a couple of months back...

FWH with chinook.
Galena at start of the boil.
Chinook & Pacific Jade at half way point
Mosaic with 10 or 15 mins to go
More Mosaic at flame out.
Dry hop is with simcoe  2g per litre and 3g per litre.

Ive scaled down everything in the recipe to a 5 gallon batch in beersmith. If I get the green light from Chris Il post it here.

Quote from: Hop Bomb on October 30, 2014, 11:40:23 PM

Quote from: Bubbles on October 07, 2014, 06:17:24 PM
Hop Bomb posted the hop bill for f&f a couple of months back...

FWH with chinook.
Galena at start of the boil.
Chinook & Pacific Jade at half way point
Mosaic with 10 or 15 mins to go
More Mosaic at flame out.
Dry hop is with simcoe  2g per litre and 3g per litre.

Ive scaled down everything in the recipe to a 5 gallon batch in beersmith. If I get the green light from Chris Il post it here.

*fingers crossed*

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: OFAF
Brewer: Thomas Delaney
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 19.00 l   
Estimated OG: 1.081 SG
Estimated Color: 17.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 149.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
6.37 kg               Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC)           Grain         1        89.0 %       
0.79 kg               Caramalt (Simpsons) (69.0 EBC)           Grain         2        11.0 %       
22.90 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min  Hop           3        22.4 IBUs     
29.77 g               Galena [12.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           4        25.4 IBUs     
45.80 g               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min        Hop           5        31.2 IBUs     
45.80 g               Pacific Jade [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min   Hop           6        31.2 IBUs     
48.09 g               Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 15.0 m Hop           7        20.0 IBUs     
41.22 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  90.0 Hop           8        19.6 IBUs     
0.0 pkg               Safale American  (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)  Yeast         9        -             
60.00 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days      Hop           10       0.0 IBUs     
40.00 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days      Hop           11       0.0 IBUs     


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 7.16 kg

Notes:
------
OFAF brewhouse brew house stats:

Mash at 66c

OG 1081
FG 1016


Ferments at 20c for two weeks. Then move on to your dry hop regime. 
-------------------------------

You may prefer to adjust the grain bill down and sub in some dextrose to try dry this beer out and get it to finish around 1.008 ish


-------------------------------

Water additions: Thats your own business.

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ignore all the mash, sparge & kettle volumes. That's based off my 100l kit. Enter the recipe in your own brew program & you will get what you need exactly.

All the malt and hops are scaled from pre boil volume 1200 litres in the brewery to 19 litres of finished beer in your corny keg.

Our flame out simcoe addition gets a 30 min hop stand. In addition to that the hops are in contact with the hot wort the entire time it takes to chill and transfer to FV so about 30 to 45 mins contact time (chilling time depends on how cold the CLT water is) + the 30 min hop stand. So you should defo do a hop stand at flame out before you start chilling if you are trying to clone it.

Cool! Cheers for that Tom.

You beauty! Thanks for the recipe.

This is brilliant. Thanks.

Quote from: Bubbles on October 30, 2014, 01:32:02 PM
Thought I'd post this for anyone interested in doing a clone of Galway Bay Chocolate Milk Stout. The recipe was given out by Galway Bay's head brewer Chris when he was interviewed on the Brewing Network a few weeks ago.

Nice to get a recipe for an Irish craft beer that actually comes from the source, although he did throw in a comment that the recipe would "send you in the right direction".. Probably pretty close though.

OG 1.060 (with the lactose contributing 7 pts)
FG: 1.025

65% Maris Otter Pale Malt
9% Chocolate Malt
5% Flaked Barley
5% Brown Malt
4% Crystal Malt 40L
4% Malted Oats
6% Vienna Malt
2% Roasted Barley

Mash at 67.5C

Hopping is single bittering addition at 60 mins giving 34 IBUs. Chris recommends any clean bittering hop like Magnum or Warrior.

Late in the boil, probably 10 mins just to sanitise, add:
23g per litre Lactose
300g "organic chocolate powder" (for a 19 litre brewlength)

Ferment at 20C using Danstar Nottingham
Cold-condition for 4-5 weeks

I came on just now looking for that recipe after having one in the pub tonight. Thanks!

Where would you get lactose at all?

The home brew shops should have it....https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/lactose-500g-p-257.html

That was easy ;)

Ah yeah, its just it'd be a bit pointless getting one bag in an order as I wouldn't be ordering other kit at present.  Anyone know where I could get it in Dublin, northside or city centre? 

Mottley Brew?
Or you could piggy bank one of your mates orders to one of the culchie HB stores.

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/lactose-500grm-797-p.asp

I've seen it in holistic stores before but they were charging primo prices for it. Might be worth a shot.

Quote from: johnrm on November 04, 2014, 07:28:24 AM
culchie HB stores.

Cheek from a Corkman!! Nothing new there.

Just on stout ingredients, molasses is another one, I couldn't find it in Dunnes or Lidl/Aldi either.  Holland & Barrett have 720g for 3.99 which would be perfect for the recipes I'm looking at, just curious if others have found it elsewhere?

Just an edit to let ye know about coconut and molasses prices, the 740g of molasses was E3.99 in Holland and Barrett, but their cocoa nibs are E11.49 for 300g :-0!

I also got 1kg of jagharee which is an Indian made product described as 'thickened molasses', this was on Moore St., 500g of desiccated coconut was E2.95 in the Asia Market on Drury St .

No sign of lactose anywhere.

Lactose:  You can get a 250g bag for around 5euro on Amazon if your home brew supplier has a minimum charge on p&p

Otherwise if you are the adventurous type with infinite resources and time you could make it yourself: https://infohost.nmt.edu/~jaltig/Lactose.pdf (subject to lab availability).

Or just use milk, vinegar, vodka and some kitchen pots....though the quality of your product may be questionable  ;D

Regarding an Irish Clone book, I think it's a great idea despite only recently getting into the idea of brewing clones.  Would love the recipe to Hilden's Barny's Brew.

Actually, I have a question here - what is "organic chocolate powder". Is it cocoa or a drinking powder like Green and Blacks...

Cocoa, I'd say.. drinking chocolate would be sweetened, and no mentioned on the podcast about the chocolate powder contributing fermentables. Drinking chocolate would have more crap in it. Fats in the form of cocoa butter and so on..

Cheers. Sure I'll give cocoa a go anyway and see how it works out :)

So, I had another of these in the pub the last night and I had forgotten how sweet it is. I wonder how to tweak the recipe to go more in the O'Hara's Leann Folláin direction... Answers on a postcard? :)

Drop the lactose.

Hehe, a very fair point ;)

Quote from: molc on December 03, 2014, 03:45:54 PM
Actually, I have a question here - what is "organic chocolate powder". Is it cocoa or a drinking powder like Green and Blacks...

Its green & blacks in Buried At Sea. One jar into 2000 litres.

(http://www.shipleyhealthstore.co.uk/content/images/thumbs/0003994_green-blacks-organic-hot-chocolate-drink-powder_300.jpeg)

Quote from: Hop Bomb on December 04, 2014, 08:54:09 PM

Quote from: molc on December 03, 2014, 03:45:54 PM
Actually, I have a question here - what is "organic chocolate powder". Is it cocoa or a drinking powder like Green and Blacks...

Its green & blacks in Buried At Sea. One jar into 2000 litres.

Interesting. The recipe above is suggesting 300gm to 20L, which isn't consistent a jar to 2000L. Oh well, experimentation has its rewards ;)

Im a brewer at Galway Bay & have brewed this a few times now. Its 1 full jar into 2000 litres. It was 4am & we all worked a 12 hour shift before that interview so easy make a mistake when trying to break down a 2000 litre recipe to 19 litres.

Oh , I wasn't being pointy. I actually assumed that the original recipe was wrong, not what you said about adding a jar. Applying the same scaling, that means the 19L version only needs about 5gm as I understand it.

Thanks for all the feedback; it's greatly appreciated. It's great to be able to get some insight from the brewers on the recipes.

No sweat. Another amendment to the GBB recipes is we dont use any marris otter for a base malt in anything. Its all Simpsons best pale ale. Our boil on buried at sea is longer than 60 mins also. When we add the lactose it totally kills the boil so we have to pause the clock until it gets back to a rolling boil again. You may not have that problem on a 20 litre scale though?

Thanks for the further info Tom. So is 5g of drinking chocolate correct then? Can't be any more than a teaspoon or two in a home brew size batch..

Might give that a lash someday.

Quote from: Hop Bomb on December 05, 2014, 12:12:37 PMOur boil on buried at sea is longer than 60 mins also. When we add the lactose it totally kills the boil so we have to pause the clock until it gets back to a rolling boil again. You may not have that problem on a 20 litre scale though?

Preboil the lactose maybe? Or does the extra time in the kettle benefit the brew anyway?

Tbh as a homebrewer 5g seems miniscule. But if ye want to clone it then I guess that seems like the correct scale down to 19 litres. You could always dose a bottle of stout with measured amounts of it to see what tastes best yourself. or look to some homebrew recipes that are already out there to see what their dosage is.

As for the boil thats up to yourself. We have to add the extra time as it totally kills the boil for 10 or 15 mins. Not good for hop utilization & getting your boil off to hit your numbers.

I decided recently to pause my boil timer when I add the chiller for the same reason. Does anyone else do this? I'm thinking in future I'll add the chiller earlier too so it doesn't affect my late hop additions as much.

Braumeister instructions suggest adding the chiller AT the end of the boil. 70c+ is what you need to kill bugs so this makes sense.

Might try that. I always have it in a bucket of starsan anyway. Can't be too careful though.

Quote from: Hop Bomb on December 05, 2014, 12:33:26 PM


As for the boil thats up to yourself. We have to add the extra time as it totally kills the boil for 10 or 15 mins. Not good for hop utilization & getting your boil off to hit your numbers.

I don't know how this would work yourselves in GBB on an industrial scale but as there's a kitchen in the Oslo one trick for you is to put the sugar in an oven and preheat it to 100C, this a trick from jam-making.

Quote from: cruiscinlan on December 15, 2014, 10:35:18 PM
I don't know how this would work yourselves in GBB on an industrial scale but as there's a kitchen in the Oslo one trick for you is to put the sugar in an oven and preheat it to 100C, this a trick from jam-making.

Good plan except GBB moved the brewery out of the Oslo a good few months ago.

Did they not move it out the back into the outbuildings? Anyway on an industrial scale if it causes trouble with a big industrial process like brewing depending on their volume they may be able to get a unit that would preheat the sugar for them or contract it.
Just a thought anyway.

Pausing the clock on the boil for 10 mins is much easier than trying to pre heat the lactose. (We're based in Ballybritt Industrial Estate now - not in salthill anymore)

Quote from: Hop Bomb on December 16, 2014, 02:01:09 AM
Pausing the clock on the boil for 10 mins is much easier than trying to pre heat the lactose. (We're based in Ballybritt Industrial Estate now - not in salthill anymore)

Make in it up as syrup in boiling water***, it will then have a lower mash threshold top back to a boil


***works on the home brew scale at least

Feck i brewed a 19l batch with 300 grams of cocoa powder. Should be interesting. In saying that i've brewed chocolate stouts before with 200 grams in the recipe. Hop Bomb at what point do you add the chocolate powder?

Well let us know how the 300 gm works out on this one. When's it due? Doing the same brew in the new year, so would be great to hear some comments before I throw the kitchen sink at it :)

Quote from: lewi on December 16, 2014, 09:56:33 PM
Feck i brewed a 19l batch with 300 grams of cocoa powder. Should be interesting. In saying that i've brewed chocolate stouts before with 200 grams in the recipe. Hop Bomb at what point do you add the chocolate powder?

I was brewing Buried at Sea on Monday so while its fresh in mind I can confirm - 500g of choc powder into 2100 litres. It goes in with 15 mins left in the boil. Happy brewing! :)

Hop Bomb, just out of nosiness, how much Buried at Sea do you brew a year? Nice beer by the way mate, chapeau.

Anyone got a Beamish recipe? Gonna do a stout this week, want it have the Beamish chocolateyness. Thinking of just splitting the roast addition to 25g roast barely, 25g chocolate.

There's a recipe from BYO magazine reproduced in this thread:

http://www.ratebeer.com/forums/byo-250-classic-clone-recipes_258070.htm

That's not a lot of dark roast for a stout, Qs. Small batch?

Hah no just drunkish posting, 250g of each.

Quote from: Bubbles on December 29, 2014, 10:14:38 AM
There's a recipe from BYO magazine reproduced in this thread:

http://www.ratebeer.com/forums/byo-250-classic-clone-recipes_258070.htm

Nice one. Thats a bit of a fussy grist though. Think I'll keep it a bit more simple.

Found this is another BYO article, Gonna do it close to this but with a bit of choloate added in and a little higher OG. Also not doing all the mash steps, single infusion for me.

QuoteBeamish-Style Dry Stout

(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.041 (10.2 °P)
FG = 1.009 (2.4 °P)
IBU = 40 SRM = 50 ABV = 4.1%
Ingredients

6.0 lb. (2.72 kg) Crisp British pale ale malt or similar malt made from Maris Otter
1.75 lb. (794 g) Great Western flaked barley
17.0 oz. (482 g) Great Western roasted barley (500 °L) (crushed)
7.6 AAU Challenger pellet hops (0.95 oz./27 g at 8% alpha acids)(60 min.)
2.5 AAU Kent Golding pellet hops (0.5 oz./14 g at 5% alpha acids) (15 min.)
White Labs WLP004 (Irish Ale), Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale) or Fermentis Safale US-05 yeast
Step by Step

Crush the roasted barley very fine. Run it through a coffee mill or use a rolling pin to turn it almost to dust. That is critical to getting the right flavor and color with this recipe. Mill the remaining grains as normal and dough-in targeting a mash of around 1.5 quarts of water to 1 pound of grain (a liquor-to-grist ratio of about 3:1 by weight) and a temperature of 120 °F (49 °C). Hold the mash at 120 °F (49 °C) for 15 minutes then raise the temperature to 148 °F (64 °C) until enzymatic conversion is complete. Raise the temperature to mash out at 168 °F (76 °C). Sparge slowly with 170 °F (77 °C) water, collecting wort until the pre-boil kettle volume is around 6.5 gallons (24.4 L) and the gravity is 1.032 (8 °P).

The total wort boil time is 90 minutes. Add the bittering hops with 60 minutes remaining in the boil. Add Irish moss or other kettle finings and the last hop addition with 15 minutes left in the boil. Chill the wort rapidly to 69 °F (21 °C), let the break material settle, rack to the fermenter, pitch the yeast and aerate thoroughly.

Ferment at 69 °F (21 °C). Slowly raise the temperature during the final 1⁄3 of fermentation by 6 °F (3 °C) to reduce diacetyl levels in the beer. When finished, carbonate the beer to approximately 1 to 1.5 volumes and serve at 52 to 55 °F (11 to 13 °C).

Yeah that was my thought too. I think it might be the historic thing where Beanish was made without any barley that has people adding in all sorts to their recipes.

Quote from: Hop Bomb on October 31, 2014, 01:31:27 PM
 
60.00 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days      Hop           10       0.0 IBUs     
40.00 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days      Hop           11       0.0 IBUs     

I have recently done the Of Foam & Fury clone that is on here. I am guessing the above means dry hop with 60g for 4 days and then after the 4 days add 40g for another 4 days?? (sorry I'm a noob ;))

@molc 300 grams seemed to work well. I didn't use green and blacks i used cocoa powder from the health food shop and was afraid it would be too bitter. Anyway just ordered 4 more bags of lactose so will be brewing this again.

Good to know. After I empty my current 2 kegs of stout, I'll be giving this one a go :)

@Hop Bomb I've been looking at putting together the OFAF and pacific jade seems nowhere to be found (can only find 2012 galena also though as a 60 min addition I'm guessing this wouldn't matter too much...) Would you have any tips on a good alternative?

Quote from: pdb on February 20, 2015, 11:42:53 AM
@Hop Bomb I've been looking at putting together the OFAF and pacific jade seems nowhere to be found (can only find 2012 galena also though as a 60 min addition I'm guessing this wouldn't matter too much...) Would you have any tips on a good alternative?

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/pacific-jade-nz---whole-hops-100g-brupaks-3566-p.asp

Bumping this as it's something I'd really like to see getting up and running.

I recently attempted a clone of Hope Beer's Grunt saison. I exchanged a few emails with their head brewer Mark and he said it looked good. Now I will say, the result wasn't an exact clone but it was pretty close. The only thing I left out was bergamot and I think it's important. If I were to attempt this again, I'd sub in orange zest for the bergamot because I think the citrus needs to be there to balance out the juniper. Hope someone finds this useful.

OG 1.042
FG 1.002

Water - Sulfate 80ppm, Chloride 40ppm

78% Pilsner malt
16% Wheat malt
3% Melanoidin malt
3% Dextrose (wanted it nice and dry)

Mashed @ 64C
Boiled 1 hour (yet to have a taste issue boiling pils-heavy wort for only an hour)

60 mins - Sorachi Ace 10 IBU
30 mins - 40/60 Sorachi Ace & Cascade 10 IBU
15 mins - 40/60 Sorachi Ace & Cascade 7 IBU

Danstar Belle Saison @ 19C

Tincture of 150ml gin, 50g crushed juniper berries and 3 chopped lemongrass stalks for 2 weeks. Added the tincture 10ml at a time to my keg until the flavour was good. Ended up adding 70ml.

Lovely beer. We did a tour last week of the brewery.
This beer is fermented at 27c.

27! Wow that's some difference. I cooled it to 19 and let it free rise, no ferm control. Even at that, mine still tasted slightly more phenolic that the original.

Anyone tried to clone Whiplash Rollover Session?

Quote from: Will_D on December 10, 2012, 10:36:47 AM

Would it not be awesome for the NHC to create:

[size=14]"Irish Clone Beers by the NHC"[/size].

The way it would work is to approach the micros for their basic recipes and any info they are prepared to give away. I know some are prepared to share. Others will not.

We then list those recipes as definitives and lock the thread.

We would still brew them up I'm sure. But IMO they are what we have been told and should not be tweaked.

For the others we make up the clone recipe ourselves either from existing recipes published on the NHC and other sites.

Then a few experienced brewers ( a job for the regional groups ) brew them up, taste then, compare notes and then the recipe is tweaked, brewed again etc. and finally  published as a "Official tested, NHC Clone" and the thread locked.

If we get enough recipes (there are after all a huge number of Irish beers currently being produced) then we COULD publish the book to world-wide acclaim.

WHO would be willing to take on the role of editor?:

Initially the editor would structure the Forum:

Sticky: Rules of Forum

Identify the beers to start with, list them as threads.

Only the editor or his appointed contact who knows the owners well would contact the brewers. With recipes received they would be published and locked.

The empty threads would be initially updated by the members who would publish the recipe(s).

Editor would then ask the regional brewing groups to select a beer and brew it, taste and tweak.

Then the recipe would be posted on the thread as the only post and then the thread would be locked.

Over time the forum would evolve into the recipe book.

This idea would give great impetus and focus to the regional brewing groups and a solid pupose to the NHC.

Already I have book 2 in mind: "Cloned Irish Beers of the Past" where we re-create the forgotten great beers from Irelands Past, including how Guiness, Smithwicks, Beamish, Murphys USED to be before the industrials moved in.

What do we think lads?

Will

Sorry for dragging up an old thread like this but just wondering would anyone else be up for following through on the idea put forward in Post 10 of this thread by Will_D?

Recently came across this on the American Homebrewers Association website: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/top-50-commercial-clone-beer-recipes/

I think this might be a good format to follow - a clone recipe for one of the standout beers from each county (i.e. Of Foam and Fury for Galway and Ambush for Kildare).
And it might prove to be a nice way to emulate the beers we like to enjoy and the breweries we like to support.

It goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway) that this might prove more difficult for counties which have a greater number of breweries and even more so for counties with just one brewery...
Plus the whole thing of approaching a micro-enterprise for its IP...

Anyway was just wondering what would be the general feeling among club members with developing this?

I think you'll find we brew better beer than the commercial offerings I've tasted recently as they suffer from the constraints of having to use old hops numerous fermentation/packaging flaws and commercial financial constraints on ingredients!
I've tried some of the recipes posted by winners of the Nationals and they are way better than any commercial products I've had.
Having said all that if you could get whiplash to reveal all their secrets I wouldn't say no

I also  find that just having a recipe is not enough. Most commercial beers have fairly simple recipes with homebrewers being the ones who like complicated ones :rolleyes:.  The brewing equipment  and general process can produce 2 different beers from the same recipe.

I spose that BS from Brewdog proves that?

Quote from: CH on July 23, 2018, 04:04:43 PM
I think you'll find we brew better beer than the commercial offerings I've tasted recently as they suffer from the constraints of having to use old hops numerous fermentation/packaging flaws and commercial financial constraints on ingredients!
I've tried some of the recipes posted by winners of the Nationals and they are way better than any commercial products I've had.
Having said all that if you could get whiplash to reveal all their secrets I wouldn't say no

I know what you mean, there's a lot of pale ales, stouts and red ales about that don't really say anything. And often disappointed by the variance in quality when picking up a few at the weekend...

I haven't really used many of the NHC recipes and have tried to imitate some of the American micros such as Pipeworks and Three Floyds, but will give one of the winning recipes a go for the next batch.

If we could do that we'd be flying it  :P

@DEMPSEY - You're dead right, but that's half the craic   :)

There is a large degree of naivety in this from myself, as I wouldn't be as experienced a brewer as a lot of the NHC members, but I have given the few recipes approximating Irish microbreweries a bash (with varying success) and there is a bit of craic in trying to clone a beer. Even if we got a good approximation of some recipes I'd be pretty happy!

Did I really write that?

ha haa yes you did :D

Bumping this thread in the hope of resurrecting it.

Quote from: nigel_c on July 10, 2019, 09:59:43 AM
Bumping this thread in the hope of resurrecting it.

What ye looking for?

Not really looking for anything but with Dec generously posting recipes we could do something with it here.

Worth a go.

I want the Scraggy Bay recipe if anyone reckons they know it. I'd fairly confident it has Simcoe and Citra in it but I'm not sure what the malt bill looks like at all.

Have you tried emailing Kinnegar? The fella that owns it, Rick, seems like a decent bloke. Might throw you a bone.

Quote from: phildo79 on July 10, 2019, 01:49:26 PM
Have you tried emailing Kinnegar? The fella that owns it, Rick, seems like a decent bloke. Might throw you a bone.

Ah yeah I'd know Rick well enough. I just always forget to ask him!

Is he not notoriously tight on letting his recipes go? That's the rumour anyway

Quote from: nigel_c on July 10, 2019, 10:24:05 AM
Not really looking for anything but with Dec generously posting recipes we could do something with it here.

Good call but stuff may get lost if its in a single thread.

Could get it's own section and each recipe once deemed cloned is locked. The recipe could be then posted in standard format.