Recipe critique - American Rye IPA

[Shanna]

Hi there,

Was thinking of doing an American IPA Ale with rye according to the following recipe. Would be interested in hearing criticism/feedback on the recipe. I don't have the cararroma malt and I was wondering if I could replace it with crystal malt of the same ebc e.g. 250?

Thanks,

Shanna

Mash Ingredients
Amt            Name                                                         Type    #    %/IBU
4.60 kg    Pilsner (2 Row) UK (2.0 EBC)                         Grain    1    63.6 %
0.68 kg    Rye Malt (9.3 EBC)                                         Grain    2    9.4 %
0.50 kg    Munich Malt - 10L (23.9 EBC)                 Grain    3    6.9 %
0.45 kg    Vienna Malt (6.9 EBC)                                 Grain    4    6.2 %
0.40 kg    Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (120.0 EBC)      Grain    5    5.5 %
0.35 kg    Caraaroma (256.1 EBC)                                 Grain    6    4.8 %
0.25 kg    White Wheat Malt (4.7 EBC)                         Grain    7    3.5 %

Mash Steps
Name    Description                                    Step Temperature    Step Time
Mash In    Add 21.36 l of water at 73.7 C    65.6 C                    75 min

Fly sparge with 19.43 l water at 75.6 C
Add water to achieve boil volume of 31.04 l
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.054 SG

Boil Ingredients
Amt             Name                                                                    Type    #    %/IBU
4.00 g    Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min                            Hop            8    2.0 IBUs
27.00 g    Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 80.0 min                            Hop            9    34.7 IBUs
22.00 g    Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min    Hop    10    26.2 IBUs
20.00 g    Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min                            Hop    11    4.8 IBUs
Estimated Post Boil Vol: 27.04 l and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.065 SG

Dry Hop and Bottle/Keg
Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients
Amt            Name                                                    Type    #    %/IBU
27.00 g    Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days    Hop            12    0.0 IBUs

Pitch Yeast and Measure Gravity and Volume
Fermentation Ingredients
Amt            Name                                                                            Type    #    %/IBU
2.0 pkg    SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) [23.66 ml]    Yeast    12    -

[nigel_c]

I'd change the hop additions. Use the magnum for all the  bittering and keep the cascade and simcoe for late additions. Colombus mid boil. Simcoe is too good for a 80 min boil. In my oppenion anyway.

[Bubbles]

Chief, I would...

Ditch the 90 minute boil, and just do a regular 60 mins. Don't see the need for it.
Switch the hops - Use the magnum for bittering at 60 mins and keep the other hops for the late additions. Also increase the amounts of late hops considerably. An IPA should have a big hop punch.
You might consider increasing the rye to 15-20%. 9% might get a little lost and you won't get much of that spicy flavour.
Ditch the S-04, tastes like gick and won't give you the level of attenuation you want in an IPA.
Never used CaraAroma, but looks like a lot of dark crystal in a recipe that already has .4kg of Crystal 80.

[Shanna]

Chief, I would...

Ditch the 90 minute boil, and just do a regular 60 mins. Don't see the need for it.
Switch the hops - Use the magnum for bittering at 60 mins and keep the other hops for the late additions. Also increase the amounts of late hops considerably. An IPA should have a big hop punch.
You might consider increasing the rye to 15-20%. 9% might get a little lost and you won't get much of that spicy flavour.
Ditch the S-04, tastes like gick and won't give you the level of attenuation you want in an IPA.
Never used CaraAroma, but looks like a lot of dark crystal in a recipe that already has .4kg of Crystal 80.

Sound advice thanks, I took the original bones of it from an internet site originally and was a bit wary of the timing of the hop additions. At 15-20% I have read that this will cause problems with sparging without having rice hulls to add to the mash tun. Have you any experience yourself of using that much rye? I mean to ask what yeast would you recommend using instead? I have a boddingtons clone that is using a windsor ale yeast? Would that work or should I be looking for something like US-05?

Shanna

[Bubbles]

Yeah, the hop additions look a little wacky alright.

I haven't used that much rye before... I used around 9 or 10% in a saison and got little or no rye flavour from it - so in a dark beer like yours I think the rye would struggle even more to make itself known. The only times I've used rye has been when doing BIAB, so a stuck mash wasn't a worry. Maybe someone else would chime in, if they know.

Do a google for "bear republic hop rod rye clone". I think that uses a good deal of rye malt. Maybe you could find something to put your mind at rest. You'd do a lot worse than follow any of the clone recipes you find - it's a great beer. They sell it in the Cellar, if you want to "try before you buy".

If I was going for an American IPA style, I'd use US-05 or WLP001. No question. The English yeasts can actually strip hop flavour out of your beer, especially the hard floccing strains (like S-04). I haven't used Windsor myself, but I've heard it can be a pain to drop out. Personally speaking, I wouldn't use Windsor in an American IPA. It is also a low attenuator - in IPA styles you want to dry the beer out, to allow the hops to shine.

What OG are you shooting for? If it's a high OG then the English low attenuating strains could leave you with an overly sweet and cloying beer.

[Shanna]

Yeah, the hop additions look a little wacky alright.

I haven't used that much rye before... I used around 9 or 10% in a saison and got little or no rye flavour from it - so in a dark beer like yours I think the rye would struggle even more to make itself known. The only times I've used rye has been when doing BIAB, so a stuck mash wasn't a worry. Maybe someone else would chime in, if they know.

Do a google for "bear republic hop rod rye clone". I think that uses a good deal of rye malt. Maybe you could find something to put your mind at rest. You'd do a lot worse than follow any of the clone recipes you find - it's a great beer. They sell it in the Cellar, if you want to "try before you buy".

If I was going for an American IPA style, I'd use US-05 or WLP001. No question. The English yeasts can actually strip hop flavour out of your beer, especially the hard floccing strains (like S-04). I haven't used Windsor myself, but I've heard it can be a pain to drop out. Personally speaking, I wouldn't use Windsor in an American IPA. It is also a low attenuator - in IPA styles you want to dry the beer out, to allow the hops to shine.

What OF are you shooting for? If it's a high OG then the English low attenuating strains could leave you with an overly sweet and cloying beer.

Food for thought, was thinking about the Windsor as it was to hand but will use the US-05 instead. Was thinking along the line of OG of 1.065 or there abouts.

Shanna

[Bubbles]

Yeah, 1.065 and s-04 will end up a pretty sweet beer. I'm a little biased though, I just hate S-04.

[Shanna]

Yeah, 1.065 and s-04 will end up a pretty sweet beer. I'm a little biased though, I just hate S-04.

Snap, never forgave it for previous brewing disasters

Shanna

[Shanna]

Reworked this recipe according to the advice given and the clone recipe referenced. Trying to dial down the alcohol" in this one.

Clean and Prepare Brewing Equipment
Total Water Needed: 40.28 l
Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients
Amt            Name                       Type    #    %/IBU
3.76 kg    Pilsner (2 Row) UK (2.0 EBC)      Grain    1    55.8 %
1.35 kg    Rye Malt (9.3 EBC)                  Grain    2    20.0 %
0.56 kg    Munich Malt - 10L (23.9 EBC)       Grain    3    8.3 %
0.41 kg    Vienna Malt (6.9 EBC)          Grain    4    6.1 %
0.35 kg    White Wheat Malt (4.7 EBC)       Grain    5    5.2 %
0.30 kg    Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC)       Grain    6    4.5 %
0.00 kg    Black (Patent) Malt (1333.0 EBC)   Grain    7    0.1 %
Mash Steps
Name    Description           Step Temperature    Step Time
Mash In    Add 20.06 l of water at 73.7 C    65.6 C           75 min
Fly sparge with 20.22 l water at 75.6 C
Add water to achieve boil volume of 31.04 l
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.049 SG

Boil Ingredients
Amt       Name                                           Type    #    %/IBU
20.00 g       Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min               Hop    8    24.9 IBUs
30.00 g       Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min   Hop    9    28.7 IBUs
1.00 Items           Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)                       Fining    10    -
40.00 g       Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min                  Hop    11    10.1 IBUs
30.00 g       Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min                  Hop    12    0.0 IBUs
Estimated Post Boil Vol: 27.04 l and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.059 SG

Cool and Transfer Wort
Cool wort to fermentation temperature
Transfer wort to fermenter
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 23.00 l
Pitch Yeast and Measure Gravity and Volume
Measure Actual Original Gravity _______     (Target: 1.059 SG)
Measure Actual Batch Volume _______     (Target: 23.00 l)
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 23.00 l
Fermentation

05 Oct 2014 - Primary Fermentation (4.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
09 Oct 2014 - Secondary Fermentation (10.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
Dry Hop and Bottle/Keg
Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients

Amt            Name                                            Type  #    %/IBU
30.00 g    Ahtanum [6.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days    Hop    13    0.0 IBUs

Measure Final Gravity: _________  (Estimate: 1.013 SG)
Date Bottled/Kegged: 19 Oct 2014 - Carbonation: Bottle with 135.29 g Corn Sugar
Age beer for 30.00 days at 18.3 C
18 Nov 2014 - Drink and enjoy!

Shanna

[Shanna]

A dash of wheat malt is usually added for head retention. You have carapils for that. Also, the vienna will probably not be noticeable (keep it for a lager instead), and 0.00kg of black malt probably won't be noticeable either

The blackmalt is actually 50 grams that does not register on the figures from BeerSmith as it only keeps two decimal places.

Shann

[Shanna]

Edited to correct blackmalt weight. Reworked this recipe according to the advice given and the clone recipe referenced. Trying to dial down the alcohol" in this one.

Clean and Prepare Brewing Equipment
Total Water Needed: 40.28 l
Mash or Steep Grains
Mash Ingredients
Amt            Name                       Type    #    %/IBU
3.76 kg    Pilsner (2 Row) UK (2.0 EBC)      Grain    1    55.8 %
1.35 kg    Rye Malt (9.3 EBC)                  Grain    2    20.0 %
0.56 kg    Munich Malt - 10L (23.9 EBC)       Grain    3    8.3 %
0.41 kg    Vienna Malt (6.9 EBC)          Grain    4    6.1 %
0.35 kg    White Wheat Malt (4.7 EBC)       Grain    5    5.2 %
0.30 kg    Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC)       Grain    6    4.5 %
0.005 kg    Black (Patent) Malt (1333.0 EBC)   Grain    7    0.1 %
Mash Steps
Name    Description           Step Temperature    Step Time
Mash In    Add 20.06 l of water at 73.7 C    65.6 C           75 min
Fly sparge with 20.22 l water at 75.6 C
Add water to achieve boil volume of 31.04 l
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.049 SG

Boil Ingredients
Amt       Name                                           Type    #    %/IBU
20.00 g       Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min               Hop    8    24.9 IBUs
30.00 g       Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min   Hop    9    28.7 IBUs
1.00 Items           Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)                       Fining    10    -
40.00 g       Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min                  Hop    11    10.1 IBUs
30.00 g       Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min                  Hop    12    0.0 IBUs
Estimated Post Boil Vol: 27.04 l and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.059 SG

Cool and Transfer Wort
Cool wort to fermentation temperature
Transfer wort to fermenter
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 23.00 l


Pitch Yeast and Measure Gravity and Volume
Fermentation Ingredients
2ltr wlp0001 california ale yeast starter

Measure Actual Original Gravity _______     (Target: 1.059 SG)
Measure Actual Batch Volume _______     (Target: 23.00 l)
Add water if needed to achieve final volume of 23.00 l
Fermentation

05 Oct 2014 - Primary Fermentation (4.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
09 Oct 2014 - Secondary Fermentation (10.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
Dry Hop and Bottle/Keg
Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients

Amt            Name                                            Type  #    %/IBU
30.00 g    Ahtanum [6.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days    Hop    13    0.0 IBUs

Measure Final Gravity: _________  (Estimate: 1.013 SG)
Date Bottled/Kegged: 19 Oct 2014 - Carbonation: Bottle with 135.29 g Corn Sugar
Age beer for 30.00 days at 18.3 C
18 Nov 2014 - Drink and enjoy!

Shanna

[Bubbles]

Dec, you can configure the number of decimal places in BeerSmith. I definitely have have at least three decimal places in my config.

What yeast did you plump for in the end?

[Shanna]

Dec, you can configure the number of decimal places in BeerSmith. I definitely have have at least three decimal places in my config.

What yeast did you plump for in the end?

2ltr wlp0001 california ale yeast starter

[Shanna]

Dec, you can configure the number of decimal places in BeerSmith. I definitely have have at least three decimal places in my config.

What yeast did you plump for in the end?

2ltr wlp0001 california ale yeast starter

Cheers for the tip about the configuration in Beer Smith.

Shanna

[Shanna]

Loads of firsts with this recipe, stuck sparge, burnt on element causing it to trip out rather than blow the fuse. Lesson learned about using rye & also the gap in my mill. 20% rye was just too much for my humble equipment to take. Everything took an age to get sorted out & spilt wort everywhere. Only thing that worked was the inline use of the beer chiller to cool the incoming water for the copper chiller.

Shanna