IIPA recipe advice

[marzen scorsese]

so im brewing an IIPA for the national comp and ive some stuff id like to use
over 10 kg maris otter
rakau organic
el dorado
colombus
crystal 145 ebc
bruphoria finishing hops simcoe 20g
dextrose

i was thinking of using 7kg maris otter, 1kg of dextrose and 500g of crystal 145 ebc for the fermentables

hop schedule is
colombus     first wort hop        20g
colombus     60 mins                 20g
el dorado      30 mins                 20g
rakau            10mins                  30g
el dorado      0 mins                   30g
rakau            0 mins                   30g
el dorado      dry hop 7 days      40g
rakau            dry hop 7 days      40g
columbus     dry hop 7 days      30g

yeast us o5

im not sure about the simcoe and only using el dorado and rakau for the dry hop. if anyone has any tips or tweaks to the recipe id appreciate it. first time brewing something this strong and first time ive made a recipe up myself, ive used mash kits up to now so this is a real baptism of fire 

edited the recipe to add more hops

[Jacob]

Use more hops for late addition, even for 0 min. Also not sure if there's a point for el dorado on 45 mins.
Those are fruity hops so use them later to extract all the aromas not just bitterness.

[marzen scorsese]

thanks jacob so ill maybe add more columbus on 45 and add more eldorado at  0 mins to up the flavour and keep the bitterness within the range for the profile with the columbus

[Bubbles]

That's quite a lot of simple sugar in your recipe. What OG are you targeting? You might be better off using a little less sugar and trying to control your mash temperature to keep the wort more fermentable.

With no amounts in your recipe, it's hard to understand what the hop additions will mean in terms of flavour. But personally, I'd move those 30 and 45 min additions to flameout. A DIPA should have massive amounts of late hops.

[marzen scorsese]

hey bubbles thanks for the reply. i got the corn sugar idea from here http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1702-imperial-ipa-style-profile   
its easier to read it yourself but i have the grain to replace it instead and not dead set on it in anyway.

i reckon ill move the 45 and 30 like you suggest and keep just enough colombus at 60 to ensure its bitter enough for style with emphasis on flavour and aroma with loads of late and dry hops

[Bubbles]

You'll definitely need some simple sugar in a dipa, to keep it drinkable. But if it's a recipe from byo, well, you can't go wrong.

The 45 and 30 mins won't do any harm, they'll give you flavour. But only do them if you have enough hops to do massive late additions.

Do a google for "pliny clone" to get an idea of hopping schedules in an extreme example of the style.

[Bubbles]

Just read your link... ️and just realised it's a Jamil recipe and basically a clone of Pliny. Follow that recipe and you won't go wrong.

[marzen scorsese]

thanks bubbles that sounds like the best thing so ill use the jamil recipe as a template ill probably just copy the hop schedule

dube i was wondering that and would have brewed it too soon. so 6 weeks is enough to brew, ferment , dry hop and carbonate. do the bigger abv beers need more time to carbonate? ive read they need an extra week or 2 sometimes. whats your experience with them?

[marzen scorsese]

not set up to force carbonate unfortunately, hopefully by next year ill have it setup. ive been coldcrashing my beers lately and the amount of sediment is very low. its the one thing that i dont like about my homebrew and i cant wait to get kegging. i did a pale ale and didnt wait for it to clear and the amount of sediment was mental i had to leave so much behind when pouring 

[marzen scorsese]

since i have more time than i thought what would ye think of adding another hop like summit, mosaic or galaxy for late/dry hopping. any other varieties that would go well? maybe a tiny bit of wheat or carapils or is this overkill?

[nigel_c]

It as slightly too early for a big hoppy beer but if you keep the bottles refridgerated as soon as they are carbonated it'll give them a fighting chance.

[marzen scorsese]

cheers nigel that wont be a problem for me ive plenty room for them at the moment

[biertourist]

I personally like the use of sugar to dry it out, BUT your crystal addition does the opposite, so the grist / fermentables list looks "confused" as to the goal of the beer.

I'd remove the Crystal at least.
Personally I like my IIPA's to be West-Coast style which means very light in color and dry in finish.  Simple 2 Row Malt (or even Pilsner / lager malt) rather than a Pale malt will further take you in that lighter direction.


The new hop additions look great.
I agree that I'm not so sure about the Simcoe piney flavors with the other hop flavors.

The only thing I'd have a strong opinion on is the EBC 145 Crystal malt.  (See Vinnie's advice about Crystal malts in double IPAs; he's not a fan either except in extremely small additions and of lighter color crystal.)

I'm also quickly realizing that my absolute favorite double IPAs all use ONLY hop extract for bittering and then use loads of 0 minute, whirlpool, and dry hop hop additions.  You get a smoother bitterness -you get that desired smooth bitterness that the Germans like in their lagers with just an insane load of hop aroma and flavor; to me that's what double IPA should be. (Although most of the East Coast US IPAs, with the exception of Heady Topper disagree with me.)





Adam

[marzen scorsese]

thanks adam theres some great advice there.

so crystal is out then, i wasnt sure about it either to be honest, i think i seen it in an award winning recipe but it sefinitely went against anything i read.
do you think the hops are good as they are or should i add another for some variety

if i can i will get my hands on some extract. i havent looked into it at all yet and for bittering it could be very handy. have you used it yourself and could you reccommend any

[Bubbles]

Crystal malt in a Double IPA is not necessarily a bad thing - I'm sure there are plenty of commercial examples that use it.

You can use restrained amounts of crystal malt to provide the malty backbone on which to pile on the hops. The trick is to balance the sweetness the crystal gives with simple sugar and/or mash temperature.