Lacto experimental beer

[eanna]

I'm going to make a small beer tomorrow so yesterday I had a go at culturing up some (hopefully) lactobacillus from some pale malt for my first sour beer attempt.

I mashed pale malt on my hob to 1.035, boiled for 5 mins, put it into a sanitised bottle with about 30g uncrushed malt and squeezed out all the air (as lacto thrives anaerobically and acetobactar needs air).

I've done OK in keeping it between 30 and 40 degrees since, as the internet tells me this is the temp that lacto grows best in. This picture attached is the bottle after about 14 hours, all the gas in there has been created spontaneously.

https://dyp.im/ODY5C3slko

The grain bill is going to be just pale malt and possibly some crystal because I have no wheat to make a Berliner weisse.

Yeast wise, I have some interesting options:
US-05
Belle saison dried yeast
Dry English ale
Brett trois

Current thoughts on this is to take a demijohn of wort and spike with the lacto and ferment the rest with belle saison, mixing the two at a later date. I have no experience with Brett and keeping in mind other people than me will be drinking this, I may leave out the Brett. (Unless someone convinces me).

I'm making this up as I go along so all thoughts welcome!

[eanna]

I'm just back from Galway, might return your stirplate during the week instead. Yes, it is your Brett but I hear it may not actually be Brett at all!

What are you doing differently with yours?

[eanna]

25 hours after pitch the space where I squeezed air out of the bottle has nearly been fully filled by the gas from fermentation. Was a bit too cautious, could have added more wort without the risk of an explosion it seems.

https://dumpyourphoto.com/photo/m61vB4FbKB

Also picked up some torriffied yeast so it will now be more like a Berliner weisse.

[eanna]

I used the big conical so far, worked like a charm.

[nigel_c]

I did a lacto experiment a few weeks back.
Mashed as formal then dropped to 45c with a handful of fresh grain and left / mentioned temp for 2 days. Results are quite good. Nice and tart. Hopped mine with sorachi ace. It's luke lemon curd

[eanna]

Did you boil it after leaving it for two days Nigel?

[nigel_c]

I did. About 2 grs of hops at 60 just for preservatives and a load of sorach ace at flame out. It's actually quite refreshing.

[eanna]

PH of the lacto starter between 3.5 and 4 and no gas created since last night. Not sure if I heat sterilised the bottle on the radiator. Should I add more grain to it or is it finished, anyone know?
PH reading in the link

https://dumpyourphoto.com/photo/JXg1jpjrjB

[eanna]

Got a better ph meter in the morning and retested the starter, pH 3.7 . Its all tucked into bed now, have changed the plan to now sour in the kettle covered with cling film and I'll boil in a day or 2 depending on the pH. Have put 500mls into the freezer to make a small starter for the saison yeast to help it out when the time comes. OG 1.030

https://dumpyourphoto.com/photo/VTjGtsWvC1

[eanna]

Forgot to say, I only did a 5min boil with no hops, was a long day brewing so wasn't bothered complicating it anymore.

[eanna]

PH 4.1 this morning and 3.8 this evening. Doesn't taste very sour at this point.

[Hop Bomb]

Forget the ph readings. They really mean nothing in my experience as tart/sour threshold is a personal preference. Let it go til its as tart as you want & then finish it out with wyeast saison yeast. That'll get it to 1.005. Belle saison wont work in low ph. Ive tried. Neither will european ale yeast as suggested by Jamil.  Wyeast is your only man for the really sour.

If you only do a mild lacto beer around 3.5ph & above then any yeast will do to finish out.

Ive had to let my all acid malt souring berliners go as long as 5 days kettle souring to get the level of sourness I wanted.

Ive pitched mixed lab cultures along with acid malt & they've gone super sour in 2 days. Maybe its the battle for supremacy between all the lacto strains that worked in my favour on that berliner.

Ive kept all mine at 40c for the souring, & have heated them back to 40c when they've dropped below & had no ill effects. So dont be afraid to turn on the element in your vessel to bring the temp back up.

[nigel_c]

I found us-05 took a long time to get going in the sour. A lot longer then in a normal ph beer.

[nigel_c]

I really have to pick up a ph meter for these. I found as tart as a sample tastes, by the time it's fermented out its gonna be considerably dryer. As far as reproducing and conductance goes I'll be going down the record ph and note results way.
Maybe after a few batches it'll become second nature.

[Hop Bomb]

I take them throughout my process but I dont bother using them to determine when I boil to stop the souring. Way better off going by taste & use your palate to get what YOU want from the beer tartness wise. For example shooting for recommended pH on Jamils berliner recipe wasnt near sour enough & that was with a commercial pitch of lacto... Proper temp etc. They only seem to recommend a PH to shoot for as they are pitching a sacch strain that will struggle in a low PH.  Its geared towards the sacch strain instead of the tartness that you want.

If you use wyeast saison you dont have to worry about PH so much & can let it fly to the sourness you want.