Anybody use the Peco Boiler? Can't find much info on it

[ComusLives]

Hey all, I'm considering making the jump from kit brewing to BIAB, and I was looking at buying this kit to get me started. I've got a few questions about the boiler though and I'm finding it hard to find any real information on it. Has anyone on here used it?

http://www.geterbrewed.ie/basic-biab-starter-kit-kit-brewers-upgrade/

First of all, the few reviews I've found state that it's prone to cutting out a lot at high temperatures, so it's pretty useless, but all of these reviews seem to be at least 4 years old. Does anyone know if it's still an issue?

I've also seen that it can't really keep a boil very effectively due to a weak element, so could that be solved by insulating the boiler? My hob isn't really big enough or probably powerful enough to boil a big enough pot for anything like BIAB, so this seems like a great alternative if it's powerful enough.

Also, is it as simple as plugging it in and letting it boil, like a normal kettle? Is there a kind of thermostat or anything in it that could regulate the temperature?

Also, a more general question for people who do BIAB, but is something like this suitable for just using indoors? I've heard a lot of steam can come off them.

Sorry about all the questions, I'm fairly new to anything beyond kits.

[mcgrath]

Hi, I have one of the older ones so I can only comment on that. Theres no picture of the boiler on the site so I cant say if it is the same. It also doesn't say that I can see if there is a temperature controller on this one which mine came with.
The only problems I encountered with mine was
1. burning the bag on the element, this seems to be fixed now with the false bottom.
2. the element never gave up after a lot of brewing, but the plastic nut to secure it lost it threads so I had to replace it. This also seems to have been addressed with the metal nut.
3. mine came with a temp controller which just pressed against the side of the boiler. It never gave amazing control of the temp inside, so I just adjusted manually referencing a thermometer. Rigging up an stc1000 would be a good way to control the temp. I never had a problem keeping a rolling boil unless I left the control dial down by accident. You can bypass the controller anyway with a kettle lead or move the temp controller away from the boiler so the thermostat doesn't reach its temp. Should boil away no problem.
4. I did put a second element in from an argos kettle. But this was just to speed up getting to the boil. I turned it off once reached. It just shortens the brewday.
5. It will give off steam. I brew on the balcony, but did brew in the kitchen for a long time. I found leaving windows open better than putting in under the extractor hood, because it would condensate and drip back down into the brew.
6. I haven't used mine for a long time as I use a burco now. the main reason for this is because I mash inside then boil outside. The plastic boiler was just too dangerous to move with hot liquid in it as it flexes when lifted. I think mine is less than 32litre though so this one would have more headspace.
This seems like a good deal though. The whole package is probably what I paid for the boiler alone..

[ComusLives]

Thanks mcgrath!

There doesn't seem to be a temp controller from what I can see, but it comes with a digital thermometer so I guess I'll be grand with that.

Since you put a second element, was it not powerful enough to get to the boil in a reasonable time with just the one? I'm guessing you did it ages ago, but do you have any recollection as to how you did that? I'm not too proficient at DIY really.

I'd mostly just be brewing all in the one spot inside, so I don't think I have to worry too much about moving it.

So overall d'you reckon it's a good buy? I'm sure I'll be getting something better in time, but I gotta start somewhere.

[mcgrath]

For value, well I wouldn't say there is much profit in it if any. You are getting a lot. 

I cant remember the time it took to get to the boil, but just think of it like this: Its the same element pretty much thats in a kettle which boils aprox 2 litres. So boiling close to 30 will take a while. Insulation definitely helps a lot. I use the silver bubble wrap stuff and it definitely helps.

Cutting out the hole was easy. I have a hole saw set. I just picked the cutter that was the tightest fit for the threaded end on the element. You can measure the existing hole in the bucket and its position and copy to the other side. Doesn't take long to get through the plastic and just tighten up the other element.  If you are near a club I'm sure someone will give you a hand.

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

What size batches are you planning to do? A 30l kettle will struggle to do 19l batches with Biab until you get very proficient with it.

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

What size batches are you planning to do? A 30l kettle will struggle to do 19l batches with Biab until you get very proficient with it.

[ComusLives]

I've been doing 23 litre kit batches for the last while, so I guess I was planning on continuing with that size or 19l. What size should I be expecting to do instead? And what equipment would I need instead to be doing the sizes I'm used to?

I've never done anything beyond a bit of kit hacking before, so this is all new to me. This just looked like it would be a good step towards all grain without too much investment. Insulating the kettle can be done easily, and I'll look into installing another element if I can't handle how slow just the one will be.

I guess maybe I need to read more before I take the plunge with this one, figure out what I can reasonably manage and all that.

[Paul B]

Its a bit strange there isn't better info out there on peco boilers, given pretty much everyone I know uses them!

They're definitely the way to go for cheap and easy inside brewing.  Pretty much everyone I know uses them (aside from a few who've spent some extra cash to go immersion or something like that). There shouldn't be any problems with them cutting out so long as you take good care of it.  That means cleaning the element really well after each brew, and being careful to keep the contacts dry.  The 2.4kw element is well able to keep a lively rolling boil even without insulation, and you can biab 21L batches no problem (26L mash + boil).  For steam my kitchen hood works fine, just keep a teatowel to hand to help it out and clear up any extra condensation that might build up.

One final thing, I wouldn't bother with the temp controlled version, have heard reports that they're not great, can cause cutouts and not really worth the extra euro.  Would be better putting the money into a decent thermometer imo.

Hope that helps.

[armedcor]

I started with one doing biab. I ended up insulating it with reflectix and putting a second element in. I used do 19 litre batches in it. I recently switched to a duel keggle system with an electric panel, constant recirculation etc. I'll still be using my peco for half batches and extract kits though it's just so reliable/simple.

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

That link is a good deal. My 40L buffalo has the same element, and I am happy with its boil.

I am just pointing out that a typical Biab brew day with no sparge or liquor top up, will top out at around 19L for session strength beers.

You may find it limiting straight away, especially if you are making non session strength beers.

However there doesn't seem to be any cheap boilers in the 40 to 50 L capacity, that are issue-free.

My buffalo has issues for instance that I have learned to compensate for, but 40L capacity leaves a lot if flexibility on gravity.

[Bart]

A 30l kettle will struggle to do 19l batches with Biab until you get very proficient with it.

Found yesterday why is it called a brewDAY, cause it took 14 frickin' hours from start to finish.
Result is 26 litres of BIAB RIS.

Although it started with two batches (two PECO boilers) of 23L (1.044) and 23.5L (1.062) of wort.
Gradually brought back to 1.094.

[ComusLives]

Damn, 14 hours is a hell of a long time. Was that just because it took ages to get them to boiling temp?

I'm perfectly fine with cutting back to 19-21L batches, it'll save on space anyway. I'm guessing anything past that would just take an unreasonable amount of time to boil properly?

[Will_D]

If you insulate your boiler (Bottom: 50 mm PU foam, Sides: aluminised bubble wrap or exercise mats, Lid:  Wrap or mat) then you will knock off 50% or more of your "time to temperature"

[Bart]

Was that just because it took ages to get them to boiling temp?

6 hrs alone was just boiling to reduce the ~43L down to 26L.

Had only one BIAB bag but started with two batches initially.
Each heat up, 90 mins mash @64°C, heat up, then 60 min mashout @80°C
That's about 4 hrs for each.

I reckon mashout wasn't really that necessary as the gravity risen by only 0.004 / 0.006

Playing around to get decent efficiency.
And it is down to finer milling that gets me around 75%.

With crushed AG kits my efficiency was around 50% but the grain was milled much coarser.