Whirlpooling

[Dr Jacoby]

I'm building a whirlpool chiller at the moment and I'm trying to settle on a design that is both simple and effective. My main goal is to come up with a system that uses a whirlpool to agitate the wort to help speed up cooling (i.e. spin the wort around the chiller to chill more effectively) and then once the chiller has been removed, to use the pump to create a whirlpool that forces the hop trub into a cone in the middle of the boiler so that clear wort can be drawn off the side.

I'm planning to use a heat stick to boil the wort, which can then be removed at the end of the boil. This would eliminate the need to use an element fixed to the inside of the boiler (using gas would achieve the same effect but I don't want to go down that route). I'm also keen to avoid using hop screens or anything else that might disrupt the ability to create a good whirlpool. Once the heat stick and chiller are removed post boil, I'd like for there to be nothing else in there except the return tubing from the chugger pump to keep the whirlpool going.

I have a couple of concerns about this setup that I want to address before I start the build.

1. If I don't use some kind of hop/trub filter inside the boiler, is the pump likely to get clogged with trub, especially in beers that include a big hop bill?
2. If I do manage to create a good whirlpool, will this be enough on its own to separate the trub from the wort so that I can just draw the wort off through a side tap without the need to employ any kind of screen or filter?
3. What is the best way to create a whirlpool once the chiller has been removed? i.e. should I let the wort re-enter near the bottom or should I just place the tubing below the surface of the wort?
4. Are there any other issues I should be aware of?

[Hop Bomb]

From personal experience I think your pump will defo clog if you have no filter of some kind. The chuggers have a good bit of pull on them & your tap will clog. Its happened to me a few times (ive no filter at all - just a hole in the kettle wall for my tap)

You could get a 90 degree elbow & screw that to your tap inside the kettle- thread a 6 inch bazooka screen on to it. That way you will draw clear wort from the kettle wall & because the bazooka screen is small & hugging the kettle wall it shouldnt interfere with your whirlpool too much. (only good for leaf hops though)

Ive tried hop pellets going in naked & whirpooling + stirring like mad at the end of chilling to allow hops & break to settle but it still got sucked in to the tap & clog it.

Ive just been bagging my hops of late & pulling them out when Im done with them. Then chill/whirlpool + big mad stir & let settle. This method works the best & I get crystal clear wort from the kettle wall with all the break being left in the middle. I think letting the whole lot settle for 30-40 mins after chilling is the key. All the hops & break settle out & if you've given it a good enough stir it should form a nice cone in the middle.

(Im sick of bagging hops so have put an order in with stainless brewing for a stainless hop spider. I was gona go the electric brewery route with syphon tube & fine mesh around it but decided against it as I dont want any obstructions in the kettle that would interfere with whirlpool chilling)

My whirpool return is a tap at the side of my kettle with a 90 degree bend & hose tail screwed in to it. The returning wort hits the kettle wall so I dont get as vigorous a whirlpool as I could. Might switch the 90 degree out for a 45 degree so the wort returning makes contact with the wort surface - would get a better whirlpool I reckon. A hose in the wort could work also. Havent tried that method. Maybe someone on here has?

[JD]

I'd be surprised if any impeller based pump would be able to deal with hop trub without worry or consequence. This would especially be the case if you are using leaf hops. Any pump it is used without a screen, apart from the risk of blockage, would be bound to create a lot of hop debris as the impeller grinds at the trub. This debris wont coagulate as well a yeast would when it settles. There would be a greater risk of it being drawn up by syphoning or pumping when racking or bottling.

I don't bother whirlpooling myself, so at a guess, for question 2, a good whirl pool I reckon would gather the trub into a cone but would not do so sufficiently to guarantee avoiding the need for a screen. It would all depends on the 'quality' of your trub.

Regarding how to whirlpool, I would suggest you place the return pipe just below the surface of the wort. To put it at the bottom would "short-circuit" the whirlpool as it would only end up cycling the lowest layer of the wort. The upper layers would only get cycled by friction, which would likely be inadequate. Just a  guess mind, so maybe a pit of experimentation would be in order.

In my opinion, a hop screen is a necessity when using impeller pumps, if for no other reason other than to protect the pump from lumpy hop trub. A side benefit would be avoid the grinding of trub into finer debris as well.

Since your keen on no screen in the vessel, it might be worth considering having a screen in the line between the kettle and pump (think hopback and you'll get the idea).

[Hop Bomb]

Do you think Id get a much better whirpool if the wort is returning under the wort in the kettle? Rather than splashing down at a 45 degree angle on the wort surface.

[JD]

I'd not splash the wort at all until it had reached pitching temperature. After that point I'd splash away.

Put a bend or an elbow on the return pipe to that the wort returns below the surface and parallel to the surface. Place the return pipe to the side of the vessel so that the returning wort re-enters more tangentially. That way, you'll avoid getting aeration of the hot wort and the wort will start rotating naturally on return.

/J

[Hop Bomb]

Im not concerned with hot side aeration. I already get a whirpool with the wort returning via kettle wall. The returning wort hits the kettle wall immediately & hugs the kettle wall until it joins the rest of the wort. I was thinking of having it make contact with the wort surface instead of the kettle wall for a stronger whirlpool. But if having it enter under the surface will get me more oomph then Id be on for that.

Anyone any experience with this? Might try it out later if ive time & post a video of both methods.

[Dr Jacoby]

Thanks for the replies lads. I was considering a hop spider all right as insurance against clogging. From my quick search of forums in the States I didn't come across many concerns about pellet hops clogging the pump but it's a genuine worry.

I've seen some breweries whirlpool by forcing wort in through the bottom of their vessel so I'm not sure it's a bad idea. But as HopBomb pointed out you'd need to be careful about how its done.

[Hop Bomb]

My pellets never made it as far as the pump. They clogged at the tap on the kettle

[donnchadhc]

Hop spiders look like a really near solution, I have awful trouble with hops clogging my tap, even after whirlpool. Would a BIAB bag with some rigid bars for strength do the job?

[johnrm]

Pop into Guineys in Cork. Grab some voile. I need to make one of these myself.

[Garry]

Easy hop spider:

5 gallon paint strainers are ideal. They're cheap, you get 6 in the pack. They are the perfect size and have an elasticated rim at the top. It's what the yanks use for BIAB.

Get some 6" waste pvc pipe or a waste hopper. Attach 2 pieces of pipe, stick or whatever you can find. Job done 

[Dr Jacoby]

Just on the clogging issue, I was looking through Jamil Zainesheff's Mr Malty website and came across a page on the design of his whirlpool chiller:

http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

If you look at the pics of the inside of his kettle (especially the pic below) you'll see that he doesn't use a filter (or at least none is shown in these pictures). I know from his radio show that he uses pellet hops only, so maybe you can get away without a filter?

[Leann ull]

45cm Whirlpool arm from Brewpi installed and tested using a chugger 20l/min on a  70l fill of water on boiler with PBW to clean up after drilling and using oil on the thermopot

[molc]

Can't wait to get a pump that will do that

[Qs]

How does one whirlpool effectively with a hop spider in the way? Would you have to have a bag of hops too that you add after the spider is removed?