Anybody got a counter flow like this?

[Leann ull]

Any thoughts anyone on this type of counter flow which uses convoluted tubing.to allow max contact and heat exchange between hit wort and water.

[armedcor]

Plenty of americans use those as they're readily available over there. theelectricbrewery.com is one. It's a solid chunk of money even from china.

[imark]

I've a stainless steel one that I bought from aliexpress. I've used it a few times now. No complaints so far. Don't know if it's convoluted though.

[Will_D]

The grainfather ships with a similar counter flow chiller - just that the outer jacket is Qualplex or similar. Lot of HB'ers make there own from garden hose and 10 mm copper tubing. Plenty of posts on the forum about the diy version!

Just google counterflow chillers build

[Leann ull]

@Imark you'd know if it was convoluted if you put small pipe cleaner in. Do you recirculate or straight into fermenter?
Stainless versions are cheaper but I want to keep some copper in my brewing and also copper is inherently anti-microbial.
@Will yeah I know Dempsey bent his pipe down the railway station but it's smooth bore and you need a longer length as I think its not as efficient, I think the Grainfather is smooth bore as well?

[imark]

I recirculate and whirlpool. I haven't checked if it's convoluted but I'd guess it isn't or they probably would have mentioned it I'd say.

[molc]

I have a plate chiller and it's a bit of a bitch to recirculate unless you use a hop bag. The counterflow doesn't block as easily so might he a better option there. Also easier to clean.

[Leann ull]

here is a stainless one and approx the same price as beer and wine.


http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Stainless-Steel-304-Counterflow-Wort-Chiller-Brewing-Equipment-Garden-Hose-Fittings/1553652140.html?spm=2114.01020208.8.3.yHdcgl

http://www.mybeerandwine.ie/wort-chillers/183-stainless-convoluted-counter-flow-wort-chiller.html?search_query=chiller&results=4

stainless does offer more options i guess when using aggressive cleaning agents

[Ozbrewer]

I'm skeptical about these convoluted vs non-convoluted cfc.  I'd like to see a side by side comparison.

So, if I take a length of copper pipe and twist it, it will reduce in length, but surface area I would think would remain relatively unchanged. So, a convoluted version vs non would use slightly more length of internal copper piping? Would this really be significant enough in length? I wouldn't think so.

So then, is the claim about agitation, more of the beer coming in contact with the surface area?

I have cf chiller with clear hosing - I can watch the water and you can see that the water flow is well agitated without the need of a convoluted internal pipe.  Surely the beer in a non-convoluted pipe is going to be well agitated. In addition to this, what about thermal dynamics - beer cooling all the time and therefore reacting with warmer beer causing a convection affect in the piping which assists with agitation as well?

I don't have a degree in thermal dynamics or fluid mechanics. I think the only real way to tell is with a side by side comparison, flow rates matched, input water temp the same, wort same temp etc and see which cools quicker. 

[delzep]

Someone fire up ANSYS

[Damien M]

I made the attached earlier this year and it works a treat.

There is approx 10 meters of 1/2 inch copper inside 1 inch heat capable (120 degC) hosing. The copper inner has electrical cable spiraled around it to give the cooling water turbulence to maximize heat exchange and that is perhaps the convolutions referred to.

I would doubt that there is sufficient lenght in the copper only version to cool from 100 in to the 20s in one pass. Mine, in the summer would get to less than 24-25  in one pass and hoping for better in the winter (colder water source for cooling side) The copper only one would perhaps need an ice bank to get that temp differential .

I have been meaning to do a how to on it but time has not been given... If anyone is considering making one PM me and I will give you the cliff notes!

[armedcor]

Damien that is some beautiful work. Do you slow the flow of wort through it at all? I'm surprised you can't get it lower in summer. My plate chiller is one pass year round.

[Leann ull]

Ok so now I'm an expert on the subject, turbulence is the key here for thermal transfer not only with water/wire on the outside but in the US guys have also threaded the inside(not advisable for copper quality and nightmare to clean) as what happens is the area inside even though its travelling through the pipe because of density has an inner and outer region with thermal differences especially with larger 1/2" bore. small bore aka grainfather is better as there is more contact area and convoluted or flow disrupted better again, speed of wort especially high speed with for example a chugger doesn't help and its a given that ambient water will have a significant impact.

Convoluted coils
http://www.packless.com/products/double-wall-condenser-coils.htm

Best options are big bore lots of turbulence, or small bore lots of length.   

[Damien M]

Damien that is some beautiful work. Do you slow the flow of wort through it at all? I'm surprised you can't get it lower in summer. My plate chiller is one pass year round.

Thanks Armedcor, I haven't played with it enough to get specifics so my 20 -25 degC is ballpark. Next time I use it I will take some details of temps. Slowing the wort does improve the DeltaT but reduces the whirlpool on the Recirc for cold break and still playing with that too.

[imark]

I throttle back the flow and it's quite efficient. I can divert cold water via inline chiller for the final stage.
I went for 1/2" shorter length so it poses little resistance when I go full throttle to whirlpool.
If I was using it to go straight to fermentor rather than recirculate I'd have gone with a plate chiller for efficiency.