PET carboys for sour/mixed beers

[Hop Bomb]

I aged 19 litres of flanders in a 23 litre PET carboy for a year. (100% roselare ferment. Racked off cake after a few weeks onto 50g cab sav oak cubes)
One beer nerd whose palate I respect a lot said it needed more vinegar, another said it was fantastic. More of the same from the other brewers in work. No idea how it went down at sour fest as I never got any score sheets back. I personally think its a great beer. Ive kept half it back to blend with the next batch this time next year. I broke the pellicle a few times moving it, taking samples etc over the aging period & it still came out great. Id go for it in a PET. They're cheap (not as cheap as i remember though - I payed 23e each from geterbrewed - everyone has them at 30e now). If I can find my bag of cab sav oak cubes Il send some up with the brew club tees.

[imark]

You would need oxygen if you're after the acetic. No reason you can't leave some in there and then shut the valve.
That way you prevent any further oxygen getting in.
Cornies also allow you get your hand in to pull out oak cubes etc and have a ready made dip tube so you can sample with minimum disturbance to pellicle.
It's by far the best way to go imo. I've 5 full of mixed fermentation aging away at the moment.

[Greg2013]

PET carboys are roughly €30,glass carboys roughly €37,why would you even bother with plastic at that price difference ? The glass ones are no harder to manage than the plastic,just be careful is all and don't clean them with boiling water

I had four of them for two years and even i didn't manage to break one,put them in an empty 33litre Fv for transporting. I can understand why plastic has an appeal when the price difference is significant but it isn't in this case,also if you are talking sours etc lets be honest glass is far superior, for only a few bob more no staining or lingering  smells worries,unlike plastic.

[Bubbles]

I aged 19 litres of flanders in a 23 litre PET carboy for a year. (100% roselare ferment. Racked off cake after a few weeks onto 50g cab sav oak cubes)
One beer nerd whose palate I respect a lot said it needed more vinegar, another said it was fantastic. More of the same from the other brewers in work. No idea how it went down at sour fest as I never got any score sheets back. I personally think its a great beer. Ive kept half it back to blend with the next batch this time next year. I broke the pellicle a few times moving it, taking samples etc over the aging period & it still came out great. Id go for it in a PET. They're cheap (not as cheap as i remember though - I payed 23e each from geterbrewed - everyone has them at 30e now). If I can find my bag of cab sav oak cubes Il send some up with the brew club tees.

Cheers for that Tom, you're a gent. Great info also.

[Bubbles]

You would need oxygen if you're after the acetic. No reason you can't leave some in there and then shut the valve.
That way you prevent any further oxygen getting in.
Cornies also allow you get your hand in to pull out oak cubes etc and have a ready made dip tube so you can sample with minimum disturbance to pellicle.
It's by far the best way to go imo. I've 5 full of mixed fermentation aging away at the moment.

I must admit, I'm warming to the idea of the corny option. I've already got cornies, and I should be able to spare 1 or 2 to age the sours.

So, what's the best way of leaving the oxygen in? Just put the lid in place and don't seat it with CO2 for a couple of weeks/months?

So you take samples by pushing the beer out with CO2 through a picnic tap or similar? And this doesn't disturb the pellicle?

[molc]

You can even buy a few for aging beers - at €40 a pop, they are light proof and don't take up much room in the corner.

For O2, could always just take off the gas off post and put an airlock in there instead - the plastic is not airtight, so you'd have slow ingress. As for taking sample, the diptube is at the bottom, so you'd just push a little co2 in and the beer would be drawn from the bottom without touching the pellicle...

[Dr Jacoby]

also if you are talking sours etc lets be honest glass is far superior, for only a few bob more no staining or lingering  smells worries,unlike plastic.

I've never had staining or lingering smells using PET.
They're much lighter than glass carboys which helps when they're full. They're also shatter resistant and cheaper. I honestly can't see a good reason to choose glass over PET.

[Greg2013]

also if you are talking sours etc lets be honest glass is far superior, for only a few bob more no staining or lingering  smells worries,unlike plastic.

I've never had staining or lingering smells using PET.
They're much lighter than glass carboys which helps when they're full. They're also shatter resistant and cheaper. I honestly can't see a good reason to choose glass over PET.

They are easier to clean because you don't have to worry about scratching them,if you use iodine sanitiser which a lot of people do they won't stain,they are less likely to have micro scratches after years of use where bacteria could breed,you should change your plastic after a couple of years and you don't need to do this with glass.If you do sours etc glass is less likely to hold on to anything you might not want going into next brew. I am not saying plastic is bad,just that for similar money why would you not get glass,should you ever need to move them if you put them in a FV bucket in the first place it is easy enough,after all even full they only weigh about 30kg which is not a lot.

Personal preference really i suppose but like i said for the same money almost i think glass is a better material by far,if you are careful it will last far longer than any plastic.I should also point out all my FV's currently are plastic cause i sold me fecking glass carboys( ) so i have nothing against plastic,just prefer glass in this case.

[Shanna]

also if you are talking sours etc lets be honest glass is far superior, for only a few bob more no staining or lingering  smells worries,unlike plastic.

I've never had staining or lingering smells using PET.
They're much lighter than glass carboys which helps when they're full. They're also shatter resistant and cheaper. I honestly can't see a good reason to choose glass over PET.

They are easier to clean because you don't have to worry about scratching them,if you use iodine sanitiser which a lot of people do they won't stain,they are less likely to have micro scratches after years of use where bacteria could breed,you should change your plastic after a couple of years and you don't need to do this with glass.If you do sours etc glass is less likely to hold on to anything you might not want going into next brew. I am not saying plastic is bad,just that for similar money why would you not get glass,should you ever need to move them if you put them in a FV bucket in the first place it is easy enough,after all even full they only weigh about 30kg which is not a lot.

Personal preference really i suppose but like i said for the same money almost i think glass is a better material by far,if you are careful it will last far longer than any plastic.I should also point out all my FV's currently are plastic cause i sold me fecking glass carboys( ) so i have nothing against plastic,just prefer glass in this case.

Will somebody please check the author of that last post!! Far too reasonable to be Greg Almost feel like buying more cornies, pet & glass carboys after reading this.

Shanna

[delzep]

A full corny is much easier to move/lift than a full carboy too

[Leann ull]

Major issue with PET long term exposure, like anyone knows if you have tonic water from last Christmas gases migrate through it and that's great for sours as like a barrel you want a bit of breathing into it and yeah you can't break them and they are easy to handle but for the guy that sells the stuff for a living I have a couple of problems with PET;

Its a relatively young product in plastic terms that has been adopted wholesale by converters and consumers alike as its considered a "wonder product" and our knowledge base as to its adverse effects to our health is still not well known or comprehensively studied in spite of the product being in the market for 35 years.
In the same way that there were issues raised surrounding Polycarbonate in the 60's over Bisphenol A which we now know to be harmful with possible health effects on the brain, behaviour and prostate gland of fetuses, infants and children.
Polyethylene Terephthalate leeches a toxic metalloid, antimony. When stored at room temperature or less, the amount of antimony that leaches is generally deemed safe, but as temperatures increases eg stored in an uninsulated garage for a few months in the summer or other warm areas, the levels can exceed the recommended limits.

There are potentially other issues as well in that it may be affected by low ph beers or some of the complex compounds given off in the souring process.

So in summary it's not inert and until more research is done I'll be sticking with glass.

[armedcor]

Do you do all your fermentation in glass?

[Greg2013]

also if you are talking sours etc lets be honest glass is far superior, for only a few bob more no staining or lingering  smells worries,unlike plastic.

I've never had staining or lingering smells using PET.
They're much lighter than glass carboys which helps when they're full. They're also shatter resistant and cheaper. I honestly can't see a good reason to choose glass over PET.

They are easier to clean because you don't have to worry about scratching them,if you use iodine sanitiser which a lot of people do they won't stain,they are less likely to have micro scratches after years of use where bacteria could breed,you should change your plastic after a couple of years and you don't need to do this with glass.If you do sours etc glass is less likely to hold on to anything you might not want going into next brew. I am not saying plastic is bad,just that for similar money why would you not get glass,should you ever need to move them if you put them in a FV bucket in the first place it is easy enough,after all even full they only weigh about 30kg which is not a lot.

Personal preference really i suppose but like i said for the same money almost i think glass is a better material by far,if you are careful it will last far longer than any plastic.I should also point out all my FV's currently are plastic cause i sold me fecking glass carboys( ) so i have nothing against plastic,just prefer glass in this case.

Will somebody please check the author of that last post!! Far too reasonable to be Greg Almost feel like buying more cornies, pet & glass carboys after reading this.

Shanna

Twas the month off the booze i tell ya 

[Greg2013]

A full corny is much easier to move/lift than a full carboy too

Jaysus lads start eating yere fecking Weetabix will ye 

[Greg2013]

Major issue with PET long term exposure, like anyone knows if you have tonic water from last Christmas gases migrate through it and that's great for sours as like a barrel you want a bit of breathing into it and yeah you can't break them and they are easy to handle but for the guy that sells the stuff for a living I have a couple of problems with PET;

Its a relatively young product in plastic terms that has been adopted wholesale by converters and consumers alike as its considered a "wonder product" and our knowledge base as to its adverse effects to our health is still not well known or comprehensively studied in spite of the product being in the market for 35 years.
In the same way that there were issues raised surrounding Polycarbonate in the 60's over Bisphenol A which we now know to be harmful with possible health effects on the brain, behaviour and prostate gland of fetuses, infants and children.
Polyethylene Terephthalate leeches a toxic metalloid, antimony. When stored at room temperature or less, the amount of antimony that leaches is generally deemed safe, but as temperatures increases eg stored in an uninsulated garage for a few months in the summer or other warm areas, the levels can exceed the recommended limits.

There are potentially other issues as well in that it may be affected by low ph beers or some of the complex compounds given off in the souring process.

So in summary it's not inert and until more research is done I'll be sticking with glass.

More good reasons glass is superior, but to each their own,i'm off to boil some wort in my aluminium kettle