OG very low- help a newbie out

[ronan-k]

So I did my first proper AG today,and got a bit of a shock when I took my OG - 1046 when it should have hit 1061 for a 19L brew.
I'd appreciate any pointers to stop me making a mess of my next brew!

There was a 4.1kg pale ale grain bill, I milled it okay - broken husks, not flour, etc. Mash tun is a converted Coleman cooler which kept the 64.5c for almost the full 60 mins.
I deviated from the figures on Beersmith a bit: it called for a 14L mash and a 17L sparge; I did a 14L mash and a 12L sparge as I was doing the boil on the cooker and it wouldn't have the power to get a vigorous boil with any more water.

Leaving behind about 2L crap in the boil pot, I got 17.5L into the fermenter and then topped up to 19L with water.

So after topping up, I took my reading, smugly expecting everything to be perfect. I wonder is this what caused the low reading? I topped up the water but didn't stir it through at that stage, I just took the OG. I've been reading that this would make the liquid less dense where the hygrometer was floating.

At this stage I just threw in 500g spraymalt to be done with it, so I've no proper reading of where I was at without the DME addition.

Any help/advice/suggestions greatly appreciated. You're also welcome to laugh at the newbie errors and stress if you want!
Thanks folks,
ro

[Leann ull]

Ronan, that's some first post introduce yourself where you based? Tell us more about your mill crush gap what you use for temp measurement your process etc
Brewing Police will be along shortly preserve the murder scene.

[ronan-k]

Oh yeah, sorry, hi everyone! Long time lurker, first time poster etc. Based in Co Galway but I don't let that stop me....!

[Tom]

That's about what I get with 4 kgs malt. My mash tun is horribly inefficient, though, so I could probably coax more out of it.

Brewing Police will be along shortly preserve the murder scene.

I like the idea of an organised group of people who turn up in white overalls, very professional, but completely pissed and arguing with one another about liquor to grain ratios, or whether or not dry yeast needs to be hydrated before use.

[Leann ull]

Ok lets take this from the top
Grains should be finely crushed, but the milling should leave the hulls intact what are you crushing with?

[ronan-k]

So I don't know specifics about the crush of the grain - I have one of the bog standard grain mills that I alter by sight until the crush seems to be right, i.e. grain well broken but not milled down to floor. It usually comes well ground up into small pieces but not powdery.
Temp measurement is with a thermometer probe. Took several measurements in various places in the mash tun after a few minutes stirring to ensure the temp was the same everywhere. I'd be happy enough with the thermometer - it had worked fine for getting the right figures for extract & partial mash in the past.

I am wondering now was I being a bit gentle with the grain mill, but there were no whole grains coming through that I saw, and the grain seemed well broken up to me.

I should also say that this was all working to a 72% efficiency for the recipe in beersmith, so if anything I was hoping I would overshoot the runway.

Would the theory that the hygrometer was just sitting in the top up water and therefore taking a less dense reading hold any sway with the Beer Police?

[Leann ull]

can you just about squeeze a credit card between your rollers without it rattling around?
second thing is what was your mash temp before and after mash and what temp and how long did you sparge

[Leann ull]

ok you have something set incorrectly in Beersmith as Tom says 4.1 will only yield 1045@70%

[heeler58]

Hi, I think the grain bill is low and you  had too little  sparge water to extract efficiently. Do what beer smith says  until you become  a true expert, it works. Keep your temperatures exact always.  I hope this helps.☺

[ronan-k]

Yeah, CH, you're dead right, it's Beersmith. I never would have thought to question the figures in the recipe. Thanks for pointing it out.
Also, yeah heeler58, the sparge water was too low to compensate for an electric hob. Next on the kit list is a gas burner so I can get better boils and work with the right volumes.

I'm using a standard equipment profile on Beersmith (admittedly I'm not an expert on this stuff), but as you can see from the pic, it's reading OG 1061 from these levels. But I opened a new recipe and just put in the 4.1kg pale ale malt, and it's reading OG 1047.
I downloaded the recipe from the beersmithrecipes site, and obviously something got thrown out of whack along the way.

Lesson learned - I think I'll write up the recipes manually rather than import them in future.
Thanks for the advice and tips everyone, much appreciated.

[Leann ull]

you can import them dead easy and just apply your vols and kit

[Leann ull]

Another Case Closed, back to Sherlock.

[Pheeel]

Importing the recipe isn't the issue. On the volume tab you can add top up water. Readjust your recipe to hit your original OG as you'll prob need more grain with less sparge water
Also you should create a profile to match your equipment otherwise you'll be off
Lastly 2L seems a lot to leave back in the kettle. Why so much?

One other thing. Gas is fast but expensive. I used to do two brews at a time, one BIAB on an induction heater and one on gas. Gas was fine but I had to keep my eye on it all the time. I got a Grainfather and its cut costs a lot and I don't have to watch it as much

[ronan-k]

Back to the drawing board on this one unfortunately. It looks like the quantites in Beersmith were right, when you include all the specialty grains into the recipe:
4.1kg Pale Malt
330g Crystal 10
330g Munich
300g White Wheat
290g Carapils

-- so it really does like it's an issue with crappy efficiency, something that seems to plague some new AG brewers.

Has anyone got any tips to improve it? A couple of people have mentioned that it's all about the grind, so I'll watch that in future and mill with the credit card space.
RE the sparge water am I right in thinking you have to sparge with the full volume (17L in this case rather than the 12L I did)? Is 10 mins okay for a batch sparge? The mash temps were bang on for the 60 mins in this one.

Pheeel, you mentioned the 2L left in the kettle: it was mostly gunk as far as I can see; should I just  take it all into the FV and assume it'll settle with the trub as fermentation goes on?

Any other tips greatly appreciated.

Brewing, where everything leads to a 90 degree learning curve....

[Tom]

There's a post here on efficiency, where they discuss the water. Calcium etc. Just another thing to think about! :S

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74208