Water Adjustments

[Partridge9]

I have never brewed a nice pilsner.

I am blaming my water 

But seriously - if this is my profile

Sodium as Na, mg/L 18.7
Potassium as K, mg/L 2.5
Magnesium as Mg, mg/L 7.2
Calcium as Ca, mg/L 72.2
Chloride as Cl, mg/L 30.4
Nitrate as NO3, mg/L 8.0
Phosphate as PO4, mg/L <1
Sulphate as SO4, mg/L 38.2
Total alkalinity as CaCO3, mg/L 164
pH 7.1
Conductivity, uScm-1 at 20C 451
Total residual chlorine as Cl2, mg/L <0.01


and I cut it in half with RO water

What needs doing ?

[Tom]

Even halved your alkalinity is way high. Adding acids would contribute additional minerals. Do you use acid malt? That would really help! I think it reduces pH by .1 per % of grist. You'd need to get your pH down a bit more first. Try boiling the water the night before. That way you precipitate out all the carbonates and don't add any extra sulphates or chlorides. You'd just need to add back in some calcium in the mash then. I think CaCl flakes would work. You'd only need a couple of grams.

[Partridge9]

If I went 75% RO, would that help, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

I haven't used acid malts but don't mind giving it a go

[Tom]

You'd need 85% RO water to bring your CaCO3 down to 25ppm, which is the top end of what you want. If you can coax some Calcium back in, then, you'll be right. Not sure how you do that without unbalancing everything else!

I'll have a look at the sums after lunch and see if I can help you with the numbers.

[irish_goat]

Just move house, less hassle. 

[auralabuse]

I did a pilsner recently with half ro water and half tap. My water is very alkaline too. I used acid malt until the ph was within range and it turned out real nice

[Leann ull]

I'll bring you a 50l drum

[Dr Jacoby]

Boiling only gets rid of temporary hardness (mainly chalk) but only to 50 ppm in ideal circumstances. Cutting your water with RO water is the easiest option. 75% or 85% is fine.

I'd add just a small amount of gypsum if you're brewing a crisp German Pils. Add chloride for maltier rounder styles. But keep your overall calcium level around 50 ppm.

That's the text book approach but you'd get away with higher amounts, especially if you're doing a German Pils.

[Motorbikeman]

 I have used the same kettle in my family home for making my tea everyday for the last 7 years.   Its still like new inside.  Perfect . no scale. Toilets and taps still working normally with no build up.

Would that suggest I have very soft water and is not great for brewing with?

[Dr Jacoby]

Sallins is on the same supply as me in Naas (the Ballymore treatment plant). We have very soft water, which is great for brewing pale beers. 

[Leann ull]

Pale beers being Pilsners and Lager and not so much Pale Ales?

[Dr Jacoby]

Soft water is usually good for any pale beer, ales included. When you include darker malts, especially roasted malts, you usually need to offset the acidity of the malts plus the low buffering potential of the soft water with some baking soda or chalk.

[imark]

If you look at beersmith water profile for Munich it's quite alkaline pH8 and hard.
Any idea how this lines up with soft water for lager?

[armedcor]

I have incredibly soft water,  according to the water reports we did the pH was like 5.7. Unless I treat it any kind of hoppy beer just turns out pretty terrible. Great for lager type beers though.

[Dr Jacoby]

@imark Most German lager breweries treat their water with lactic acid (from acidulated malt or a deliberately soured culture) for pH adjustments. I'm not sure if the purity laws allow for the use of RO filters and the like but you can be sure the water they use in their mash does not have a bicarbonate figure that high (unless they are brewing something dark).

@armedcor I'm not sure why you think soft water is bad for brewing hoppy beers (as long as they are pale). Low pH levels help to minimise harshness from hops. Many breweries install RO filters and other systems to produce soft water for their hoppy beers. If your hoppy beers are not turning out well I'd guess the problem lies elsehwere. On the other hand, a pH of 5.7 does seem very low for an Irish water profile (it's perfect for sparge water!). You might need to add a little baking soda to the mash to make sure the pH doesn't go too low, but the same would apply to lagers. Also, just to clarify, softness refers to the alkalinity of the water, not the pH. Low pH does tend to indicate low mineral levels but not necessarily. The real figure you need to keep an eye on for mash pH adjustment is the alkalinity.