Bubblegum 😕

[LASERBOY147]

Hi. I've brewed 4-5 beers that all seem to have slight flaws but one flaw in particular is the bubblegum flavour. It's very obvious and tends to dominate and I'm not brewing using Belgian yeast so it definitely doesn't belong.
I'm fairly sure it's based around my fermentation process. I feel I'm keeping my temp below 20oc but the temp does change from mainly 19oc down to 17oc and can vary up to 20oc max . It also is changing through the course of 24hrs. Firstly I'd like to confirm is this the problem? Maybe it's something I'm doing during mashing/ batch sparging.??
Secondly without spending a lot of money what do I do ? I'm not in a position to go buying an stc and fridge and brew belt at the moment. What do u all do when u have off flavours from fermentation. I use a plastic bucket , the usual type brewers use and I tape tge thermometer insulated to the outside of my fv. I entered the nhbc comp with a dipa and both judges wrote their was a clove phenol and esters but in most of my beers I'm using safale 05 so that shouldn't happen. Thanks for all advice . Have u had the same problems what did u do ?

[Pheeel]

Its probably one or more of the following
1. Temp
2. Sanitation
3. Chlorine in your water

Esters suggests 1. Phenols ciuld be any of the above. Does your beer smell of plasters?

[Pheeel]

It could also be the yeast crapping out. How do you oxygenate your beer?

[Frequent Sequence]

Here is some great info on esters https://beersensoryscience.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/esters/
Ethyl butyrate
This is a fermentation byproduct with a very low perception threshold of about 400 ppb.

• First what yeast are you using?
• What is the starting gravity?
• What is your final gravity?
• Are you aerating/oxygenating your wort prior to fermentation ?
• What is your pitching rate?
• Are you rehydrating the yeast

These will help narrow the issue down.

Cheers Seán

[LordEoin]

I had comments about phenols last year and it turned out to be my grain. It all went to the chickens and I've been happy since

Brew a mashkit instead of your normal ingredients. (something simple and clean like a pale ale)
Use bottled water (about €1.30 a gallon in Lidl).
If you still have the problem, at least you can rule those 2 out and focus on the equipment & process.

The 'bubblegum' flavor is odd though, what yeast?

[beerfly]

I ferment on the warm side compared to most with 05, about 22c, and it's generally fine.
Some hops can be mistaken for phenols but there usually not the ones you would use in a dips.
Have you ever used a yeast that is know for its phenol/bubblegum aroma? could be the fermenter or other equipment is not getting a thorough enough clean and there is a bit off cross contamination. Bubblegum would be very unusual for 05.

Like lordeoin said eliminate as much as you can and work upwards. A small extract beer could be another option.

[LordEoin]

or a kit

[LASERBOY147]

Its probably one or more of the following
1. Temp
2. Sanitation

3. Chlorine in your water

Esters suggests 1. Phenols ciuld be any of the above. Does your beer smell of plasters?

Temp goes between 17.5 to 20 max
Sanitation is extreme. I clean like a crazy man and use starsan in a 5 gal bucket for all equipment and my hands and arms in case of contact
Chlorine I've no in idea in Tullamore? ??

[LASERBOY147]

It could also be the yeast crapping out. How do you oxygenate your beer?

I oxegenate my beer by letting it out the boiler 2 foot down to the fv but I don't do any other kind of oxegenating  maybe I should?

[LASERBOY147]

I had comments about phenols last year and it turned out to be my grain. It all went to the chickens and I've been happy since

Brew a mashkit instead of your normal ingredients. (something simple and clean like a pale ale)
Use bottled water (about €1.30 a gallon in Lidl).
If you still have the problem, at least you can rule those 2 out and focus on the equipment & process.

The 'bubblegum' flavor is odd though, what yeast?

My yeast is nearly always Safale05 and comments I received on nhbc suggest Clover banana and bubblegum in my dipa and pear . Also esters. Now I'm drinking the dipa I can taste all of them clearly.
I might try the mash kit next

[LASERBOY147]

I ferment on the warm side compared to most with 05, about 22c, and it's generally fine.
Some hops can be mistaken for phenols but there usually not the ones you would use in a dips.
Have you ever used a yeast that is know for its phenol/bubblegum aroma? could be the fermenter or other equipment is not getting a thorough enough clean and there is a bit off cross contamination. Bubblegum would be very unusual for 05.

Like lordeoin said eliminate as much as you can and work upwards. A small extract beer could be another option.

I'm wondering if I'm over stirring the mash as it might be tannins from the mash and / or the same from the hops when I whisk the shite out of them to help the copper chiller cool the wort quicker??

[pob]

I'm wondering if I'm over stirring the mash as it might be tannins from the mash and / or the same from the hops when I whisk the shite out of them to help the copper chiller cool the wort quicker??

You (nor even the Hulk, Thor, etc) can't stir or squeeze tannins out of your grain, it's a chemical process (make sure your grain is not crushed too fine).

However as Tannins are a polyphenol, it may be a source, so check your sparge temps & pH (see article below); clove & ester sound more yeast related though, similar to a wheat strain.

It could be related to your ferment temperature control, especially in the first 72 hours. Any fluctuations will stress the yeast and could potentially cause these flavour/aromas. Typically the ferment temperature difference between clove & banana in the wheat beers are only a degree or two apart.

BYO magazine
"Some ale yeasts for example, do not perform well below 65 °F (18 ºC). The Narragansett (Chico) strain (Fermentis US-05) is notorious for this, as well as certain Belgian and wheat beer strains.  Common symptoms of fermenting too cold are stuck fermentations, poor attenuation (high finishing gravities) and off-flavors — especially diacetyl."

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More here >> Tannins in the Mash

"By keeping the temperature below 170 °F (77 °C) and the pH below 5.8, you can keep tannin extraction during wort collection to a reasonable level."

[BrewDorg]

Would suggest campden tablets for your water to eliminate chlorine and chloramines. I've found the chlorine twang more medicinal than bubblegum but it's a good place to start anyway.

As for fermentation control, you don't need a fridge (although it would help). I've had great success with a brew belt, a lagging jacket and an STC-1000. Put the fermenter in the coldest spot you can find, then put on the brew belt and the lagging jacket. The lagging jacket is vital here. Before I had it, my STC would constantly be on trying to battle the heat losses. This was causing inconsistent temperature control throughout the beer and caused mild off flavours. Since buying the lagging jacket, I can keep the temperature within 0.1 degree of my target, in the range of ~14-24 degrees. Your lower limit will be determined by how cold your fermenter's spot is. My shed is plenty cold for my needs.

Jacket costs ~€12, brewbelt ~€25, STC-1000 can be built for around ~€40. It's not crazily cheap but for such a vital part of the process, it's worth a little investment.

[cruiscinlan]

Jacket costs ~€12, brewbelt ~€25, STC-1000 can be built for around ~€40. It's not crazily cheap but for such a vital part of the process, it's worth a little investment.

By lagging jacket did you get a hot water tank one and just wrap it around the bucket?  Would like to know where you got one for 12 quid.

[LASERBOY147]

Thanks some great advice there I'll definitely  be getting the stc and a proper lagging  jacket and put the fv in a cold spot and I have no proper clue where my mash ph is at so I have a lot to work on for now . Cheers