Not Hoppy = Not Happy!

[Kevco5]

Unless I've missed something above, I think the biggest thing you seem to be missing is a 15min hop addition.

[Leann ull]

You are fortunate that the best AIPA brewer in the country is in SCD and I'd got to one of their meets, hold Bubbles down and beat it out of him with a big stick. He uses tap water.

[BrewDorg]

You are fortunate that the best AIPA brewer in the country is in SCD and I'd got to one of their meets, hold Bubbles down and beat it out of him with a big stick. He uses tap water.

Has he gotten that tap water tested before? I'd love to use tap water but it's just too hard where I live 

[Leann ull]

Where are you living? sorry Kilkenny, soft water not hard is a problem from hoppy bears.
I had some analysis done on my own last year and its soft, its amazing the difference a few grams can make.

[BrewDorg]

Where are you living? sorry Kilkenny, soft water not hard is a problem from hoppy bears.
I had some analysis done on my own last year and its soft, its amazing the difference a few grams can make.

I actually mean that my water is too alkaline as opposed to hard. The alkalinity makes it tough for me to hit a decent mash pH so now I use Aldi bottled water with 252 ppm HCO3 along with lactic acid. Compare that to your lovely 53ppm HCO3!

Where did you get your water tested? I'd like to get this done if it's reasonable.

[Leann ull]

I did a group buy for members last year.
I sent a crate of 24 bottles off to the UK to a guy that used to sell analysis machines for a living, I'm trying to remember it was about €25-30, its in the group buy section there somewhere if you want to have a look.
I might do another one later this year when its reflective of average weather conditions and balanced water supplies so not floods or empty wells.

[Bubbles]

I might do another one later this year when its reflective of average weather conditions and balanced water supplies so not floods or empty wells.

Nice one. I'd get in on that.

[molc]

Might be an idea to post a recipe of a beer you thought would be hoppy but you felt lacking, along with how the fermentation preformed and also what you were missing in the final result.

For a lot of flavour, I've found a mix of a decent hop steep (say 100g) and a good dry hop (again at least 100g) gives oodles of flavour. However others load all the additions into 10, 5 and 0 and get similar results.

[SlugTrap]

A couple of suggestions:

- Try hop varieties that are higher in myrcene. Myrcene is a big part of aroma-forward floral and citrus flavors. Simcoe and Mosaic are good with 40-50% myrcene of total oil content, but it's not up to the levels of something like Mandarina Bavaria, which can be 70+%.
- Use a second hot stand addition. Myrcene volatilizes above 65C so you're losing some flavor with a flameout addition. I've read some brewers getting those super-juicy IPAs by adding a second round of hops after the wort has cooled a bit.
- Add more hops! BrewDog's published recipe for Punk IPA uses 320g of hops for a 20L batch, which scales to 240g for your 15L volume -  or about 2/3rds again more hops than you said you were using.

Hope this helps.

[phynes1]

I was having the same issue with flavor. I made a change to my 0mins addition. I increased the amount of hops I add. I also extended the stand time I leave the hops in contact with the wort (from 15 mins to 30 mins), and started to cool the wort as soon as I add them. I only drop the temp to 77, which is at the top of the sub-isomerisation range (71°C–77°C). I keep stirring every 5 mins or so to release the flavours. By the time the 30mins is up the temp has dropped to 72 or so. This has improved my flavor no end! Hope this helps.

[Pheeel]

In my experience you need at least 100g of hops (but more like 150) to get a decently hoppy beer. I wouldn't waste 300g+ of hops unless I was making a DIPA. The biggest bang for you buck will be dry hopping with 50g+.

I'd also recommend taking a look at the newer hops. As they're not as widely used they tend to be quite a bit cheaper than the more popular ones (Galaxy, you delicious expensive bastard!)

[Leann ull]

Pliny clone V1 I did 2 years ago, no water treatment! 3 x DH


Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
3.73 kg               Pale Malt (2 Row) US (3.9 EBC)           Grain         1        74.1 %       
0.44 kg               Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (118.2 EBC)  Grain         2        8.7 %         
0.44 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC)    Grain         3        8.7 %         
0.41 kg               Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC)             Grain         4        8.2 %         
0.02 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (39.4 EBC)    Grain         5        0.3 %         
16.55 g               Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.50 %] - Boil 90. Hop           6        27.2 IBUs     
4.41 g                Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           7        6.2 IBUs     
4.41 g                Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.50 %] - Boil 45. Hop           8        6.2 IBUs     
4.41 g                Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min         Hop           9        4.8 IBUs     
1.00 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)        Fining        10       -             
85.00 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min          Hop           11       0.0 IBUs     
28.00 g               Centennial [9.90 %] - Boil 0.0 min       Hop           12       0.0 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               US West Coast Yeast (Mangrove Jack's #M4 Yeast         13       -             
28.00 g               Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop           14       0.0 IBUs     
28.00 g               Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop  Hop           15       0.0 IBUs     
25.00 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days     Hop           16       0.0 IBUs     
28.00 g               Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days  Hop           17       0.0 IBUs     
28.00 g               Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop  Hop           18       0.0 IBUs     
25.00 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days      Hop           19       0.0 IBUs     
9.00 g                Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days  Hop           20       0.0 IBUs     
9.00 g                Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop  Hop           21       0.0 IBUs     
8.50 g                Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days      Hop


The DH process was like hobnobs in your tea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwAYglwe3HU 

[phynes1]

This is the actual Pliny recipe. http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2015/10/pliny-elder-40.html. Apparently comes from a source close to RRB.

Loaded with early hop extract additions.

[Leann ull]

Yeah but it's not as good
I've had 4 bottles in my life of Pliny and turned down 2 last Easter to let somebody else have a try, yeah it's a good beer but the whole Christmas toy hype thing irks me, plenty of other good commercial beers out there.

[BrewDorg]

Yeah but it's not as good
I've had 4 bottles in my life of Pliny and turned down 2 last Easter to let somebody else have a try, yeah it's a good beer but the whole Christmas toy hype thing irks me, plenty of other good commercial beers out there.

What could it be compared to over here? I'll likely never get a chance to try the real thing.