Recipe critique on a Pliny clone, thoughts please?.

[Leann ull]

Not sure where I got this one, did a similar version years ago and was ok, was hoping to enter it into capital but as usual ran out of time and never brewing last min for comps again beer always tastes amazing a month after closing date!

Any thoughts about it or anybody done similar. I don't normally do monster hoppy IPAs but I've a pal who has turned into a hop head. Ignore the water additions. Never used 523g of hops before, I may have to get the mangle out.

Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (45.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 35.94 l
Post Boil Volume: 29.53 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 24.61 l   
Bottling Volume: 21.77 l
Estimated OG: 1.084 SG
Estimated Color: 30.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 233.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 83.1 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
17.64 g               Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent   1        -             
3.45 g                Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins)        Water Agent   2        -             
3.26 g                Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins)      Water Agent   3        -             
2.97 g                Baking Soda (Mash 60.0 mins)             Water Agent   4        -             
7.18 kg               Pale Malt (2 Row) US (3.9 EBC)           Grain         5        74.3 %       
0.83 kg               Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (118.2 EBC)  Grain         6        8.6 %         
0.83 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC)    Grain         7        8.6 %         
0.55 kg               Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC)             Grain         8        5.7 %         
0.28 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (39.4 EBC)    Grain         9        2.9 %         
126.14 g              Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.50 %] - Boil 90. Hop           10       146.0 IBUs   
31.53 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           11       31.5 IBUs     
31.53 g               Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.50 %] - Boil 45. Hop           12       31.3 IBUs     
31.53 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min         Hop           13       24.2 IBUs     
0.50 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)        Fining        14       -             
1.25 tsp              Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)          Other         15       -             
85.05 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min          Hop           16       0.0 IBUs     
28.35 g               Centennial [9.90 %] - Boil 0.0 min       Hop           17       0.0 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast         18       -             
28.35 g               Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop           19       0.0 IBUs     
28.35 g               Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop  Hop           20       0.0 IBUs     
28.35 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days     Hop           21       0.0 IBUs     
28.35 g               Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop  Hop           22       0.0 IBUs     
28.35 g               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days      Hop           23       0.0 IBUs     
22.00 g               Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days  Hop           24       0.0 IBUs     
8.50 g                Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days  Hop           25       0.0 IBUs     
8.50 g                Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop  Hop           26       0.0 IBUs     
8.50 g                Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days      Hop           27       0.0 IBUs     


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 9.66 kg
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time               
Mash In           Add 25.19 l of water at 75.3 C          66.7 C        60 min                 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 23.45 l water at 75.6 C
Notes:
------

[molc]

8.5g dry hopping? Should it not be 85?

[Leann ull]

You go at it three times day zero day 4 and day 10 with 180g in total
I wondering does that build up layers or profiles and even with a very small amount it gives a shove over the edge?

[phynes1]

This is the real pliny recipe.

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2015/10/pliny-elder-40.html

[Leann ull]

Amarillo and Cascade! that will be served in a cocktail glass.
I think I'll do both and have a taste off

[irish_goat]

As far as I know, Pliny is dry hopped twice, the first dry hop is 80% of the total and then the final 20% is added 3 days before kegging/bottling.

[Bubbles]

"Brewing Classic Styles" claims to have the actual Pliny recipe, with minor adjustments for equipment, efficiency etc. I don't have it in front me, but the recipe is all over the web. From memory, your recipe looks quite different.

I don't think there's that much darker crystal in the "official" recipe, though plenty of CaraPils and maybe some Caramalt/C15. Might be some sugar in there too. Do you have the book, or want me to bring it along tonight?

[Bubbles]

In fact, I'd go one further.. I'd say that will come out quite dark and caramelly.. that's a lot of C40 and C60 for an IPA dude.

[Leann ull]

I have it cheers, have your toy in my hand as well,  phynes link looks interesting

[Hop Bomb]

When I brew one trick pony hoppy beers I go with 60/40 % split between pilsner & pale ale (MO or golden promise) malt & 5% dextrose to give you a chance of finishing at least low 10s. Some wheat & oats too. 230 ibu is too much imo but each to their own. If you are whirlpool hopping in wort thats just off the boil you should count those hops as a 10min boil addition.

I recirc chill my wort to 76c for whirlpool hop additions as you only pull around 5% of your total calculated bitterness for that addition. It gives me more control as I can nail my IBU between the fwh & 60 min additions & lock in all that lovely stuff with a cooler whirlpool addition without pulling any extra bitterness. Or,  you can calculate & account for the bitterness gained from the off the boil whirlpool hopping... I prefer the cooler whirlpool as Im super sensitive to grassiness from heavy handed late additions & it ruins beers for me, hence my cooler whirlpool.

If you want to cut your loses to hop sludge you can use c02 hop extract for your target ibu & save all your hops for whirlpool & dry hop.

[Bubbles]

I have it cheers, have your toy in my hand as well,  phynes link looks interesting

Ffs.. don't tell anyone about the toy. That's private!!

[Leann ull]

I have it cheers, have your toy in my hand as well,  phynes link looks interesting

Ffs.. don't tell anyone about the toy. That's private!!

I'm only delivering it I'm not showing you how to use it.

[Bubbles]

ah sure that's grand so.

[Leann ull]

Some wheat & oats too.

I recirc chill my wort to 76c for whirlpool hop additions as you only pull around 5% of your total calculated bitterness for that addition. It gives me more control as I can nail my IBU between the fwh & 60 min additions & lock in all that lovely stuff with a cooler whirlpool addition without pulling any extra bitterness. Or,  you can calculate & account for the bitterness gained from the off the boil whirlpool hopping... I prefer the cooler whirlpool as Im super sensitive to grassiness from heavy handed late additions & it ruins beers for me, hence my cooler whirlpool.

If you want to cut your loses to hop sludge you can use c02 hop extract for your target ibu & save all your hops for whirlpool & dry hop.

@ HB wheat an oats! for silkiness and head retention?
I'm a convert to FWH, but the late additions have me intrigued, I can understand why you don't get the bitterness but you extract all the lovely aromas and DH'ing is a pain in any case, why 76 degrees in particular? could you not achieve that all the way down to 50?

[Hop Bomb]

Yip wheat & oats for that. Carapils would do same but we dont use weyermann here. I prefer oats anyway, literally put it in every beer I design. Its fucking class!

All those trendy murky ipas (which taste amazing - just look like total shit - they have 40% wheat & oats in the bill & dry hop on the brew day too)

The 76c thing is the sweet spot. Its the Van Havig hopping method. He did trial batches with different amounts, times, temps hopping & published a paper on it. Its online somewhere on one of those brewmasters websites. Ive done all whirlpool hopped homebrew beers for a laugh that have been the grassiest things on the planet. And then the usual golden ratio thing with 60 min, 15, 10, 05, wp, Dryhop (great if you want punchy bitterness with aroma). I prefer the cooler whirlpool with my exact desired bitterness from fwh & 60 addition. Its very much a personal taste thing though as I dont like bitter grassy beers. Prefer juicy aromatics & moderate bitterness on back of throat not tip of tongue.

Your hop head mate would probably prefer a massive bitter hop bomb old school style so 60, 15,10,05,WP would suit. Below is just a jump off point - you can adjust up according to your OG & recipe:

0.6g/l @ 60min
1g/l @ 15min
1.4g/l @ 10min
2g/l @ 5min
Dry Hop as you like