Is all Macro Beer Really that bad?

[irish_goat]

It's brewed in Dublin to the same recipe, and exported to the packaging plant in the UK at high gravity and diluted to sales gravity there, the theory was no point in sending water over water, so transporting at high gravity reduces transport costs.

That still makes it a different recipe though, it's a percentage point lower in ABV so must have more water added.

"Sessionability test" sounds like a great thing though. 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Last but not least, what I meant by an anti macro bias is that, I regularly see a type of beer snobbery whereby somebody decrees that x brand of beer is only piss and lots chime in behind in agreement. It's a common thing on lots of homebrew forum. Many may not even have tried the beer, an example would be Budweisser, if you ever have a chance to visit a Budweisser brewery, go in and have a look. Their attention to detail and hygiene levels knock everyone else out of the park. If it isn't 100% right then it isn't Budweisser and it's dumped. All that effort doesn't produce a beer to everyone's taste, but it is very popular worldwide so they are doing something right. It has a place on a hot day at a bbq and with its sweetness is a lot better with spicy food than the ethnic beers usually offered. To say this on some forums is considered heresy.
Another example is Harp, in blind tasting trials Harp always out performed it's two main rivals here in Ireland. When Heineken first arrived in Ireland there was a dirty tricks war with their reps telling everyone that Harp was full of chemical's, that combined with Christy Moore's Harpic reference sealed it's faith.  However across the border in Norn Iron it's the number one selling beer. I remember Captain Americas restaurant in Grafton Street uniquely used to sell Harp Export -a super beer.
I heard an interview between Pat Kenny and a micro brewer on Newstalk, Pat asked what's the difference between your beer and macro beer? The response was the old Heineken one "We don't use Chemicals" inferring that everyone else does. I'd love to know how they clean their vessels or do they treat their water with for example gypsum CaSO4·2H2O?  Looks like lots of us homebrewers are also guilty then.
There's room in the world for lots of beer, I'm a big advocate for beer, all beer. It's a healthy option in moderation, and much lower in ABV than its alcoholic rivals. An anecdote a taxi driver once told me that on the original Arthur's Day the difference in his punters was amazing. People were either singing in the back of the car or sleeping, with none of the usual hassle. He put it down to the fact that everyone was drinking beer that night rather than shots and redbull.

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

[quote
"Sessionability test" sounds like a great thing though. 
[/quote]
I learned about it in the UK, some breweries invite a group eg a rugby club in to sample beers. There are two unbranded options, like a red and a green tap (representing your regular recipe and your new experimental recipe) The participants are given red and green plastic disks, and encouraged to discuss the beers They "pay" for their drinks with the appropriate disk, and the barman later counts the disks to see which beer over the night was most popular.

[molc]

I remember doing the BJCP course was a real eye opener for some of the macro beers were were trying, since they are prototypical of the style. When blindly scoring and picking the beer apart, you got all these wonderful flavours that you hadn't considered before.
There is a massive craft and micro bias. Like you say, there's room in the market for everyone and in the end of the day, beer is a commodity.

[Beerbuddha]

Stop bashing micro's S.A. 
Micros good ...Diageo bad 

But whilst on that topic is it true that the bad breweries treat there employees very well as in pay and conditions and the good breweries treat them like well..... not so good. I heard a month ago from a guy not a taxi driver that a brewer in well knownmicro was on less pay than an intern in a bad brewery  .
For me its not just about the beer it the treatment of employees that's why I don't fly Ryan air.

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Oh no another can of worms 😥

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[shweeney]

Smithwicks is so bland its really quite remarkable. I used to think I didn't like Red Ale as a result, but I now regularly drink Rebel Red in my local (not a huge amount of choice there) and it's quite nice - not sure if the FW stuff is considered macro now. I'm a big fan of Hobgoblin as well (is it a red ale?). 

Anyway my point is Smithwicks is defining an entire style here and doing a terrible terrible job of it. On the couple of occasions I've had McArdles I thought it was ok, and tastier in comparison (someone's going to tell me now that it's just Smithwicks in different packaging).

[Andrew]

but it is very popular worldwide so they are doing something right.

Yes, it's called marketing.

I remember when Budweiser was first introduced in Ireland- there was a gang of us at the bar and we all ordered a pint thinking we were going to taste something fantastic. The look of disappointment on everyones face was obvious. We even ended up asking the barman if it was supposed to taste like that. And then there was the time I was at a 4th of July Party which had free Bud- they literally couldn't give the stuff away. And it was a hot day...

[Pheeel]

Last but not least, what I meant by an anti macro bias is that, I regularly see a type of beer snobbery whereby somebody decrees that x brand of beer is only piss and lots chime in behind in agreement. It's a common thing on lots of homebrew forum.

And? In my opinion almost all the macro lagers are awful. In my opinion. I brew beer because I'm interested in how things work, I like working on projects and I'm also trying to replicate something close to the best beers I've ever tasted. Replicating a boring macro lager isn't high up my list. If other people want to that's up to them

Many may not even have tried the beer, an example would be Budweisser, if you ever have a chance to visit a Budweisser brewery, go in and have a look. Their attention to detail and hygiene levels knock everyone else out of the park. If it isn't 100% right then it isn't Budweisser and it's dumped. All that effort doesn't produce a beer to everyone's taste, but it is very popular worldwide so they are doing something right. It has a place on a hot day at a bbq and with its sweetness is a lot better with spicy food than the ethnic beers usually offered. To say this on some forums is considered heresy.

They produce a consistent product and certain people like it. Still doesn't make it good in my opinion

I heard an interview between Pat Kenny and a micro brewer on Newstalk, Pat asked what's the difference between your beer and macro beer? The response was the old Heineken one "We don't use Chemicals" inferring that everyone else does. I'd love to know how they clean their vessels or do they treat their water with for example gypsum CaSO4·2H2O?  Looks like lots of us homebrewers are also guilty then.

I don't think that's the point they were making. Heino doesn't stay fresh in a green bottle without preservatives. Corona in bottles makes me shudder just thinking about

There's room in the world for lots of beer, I'm a big advocate for beer, all beer. It's a healthy option in moderation, and much lower in ABV than its alcoholic rivals.

I'm all for that if there's a level playing field. The fact that a couple of the big boys are being cute isn't helping. I find the selection of beers in the majority of Irish pubs depressing.

[Qs]

The "well people like it" argument is only a half truth about macro lager. People are used to it and have been marketed at very hard. When macro lager is 80% of the tap range in most places, or at least it was until very recently then thats what people will drink. If people drink it for years they become comfortable with it. There isn't an even playing field where most people tried all the beers out there and said "yep its Bud/Heino for me".

[Bubbles]

Smithwicks is so bland its really quite remarkable.

Absolutely agree. Those people must have worked their cotton socks off to get something as deliberately tasteless as Smithwicks Red ale. In a wide field, it has to be the worst macro beer produced in Ireland.

[DEMPSEY]

Smithwicks is so bland its really quite remarkable.

Absolutely agree. Those people must have worked their cotton socks off to get something as deliberately tasteless as Smithwicks Red ale. In a wide field, it has to be the worst macro beer produced in Ireland.

I also do find this beer to be uninteresting. When you look at the history of this brewery and the family that began it you can see a great movie there.

[cruiscinlan]

If you're going to drink in an insensible way they want you to do it with their products. This is one of the reasons that IBUs and colour have reduced over the years in macros. Where they have been caught out is many people want to drink sensibly but want a lot more flavour.

I'm interested in the change in beer over time.  Where is the information available on EBC and IBU changes in the main commercial beers over this period?

To their credit Guinness produced a number of craft beers in the 1990s, I remember a spiced ale, a dark lager, a weiss beer there was a fourth one but I can't remember it now.

I'd be wary of apportioning praise to Diageo, ultimately their aim was to make every style of beer a Diageo product so it would not have led to a more open market.

You make an interesting point regarding Harp, I think it was BrenMurph put up an old brewlog for the Great Northern Brewery and the recipe looked lovely, oodles of saaz.  However it was a victim of a marketing war between the majors, and Diageo for whatever reason seemed content to let it fade away.  I'm not even sure if you can buy it or the Export version here.

[DEMPSEY]

Where's Sally O'Brien when you need her

[DEMPSEY]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1yNjS5Si1I