If a bottle of Smithwicks was entered to a homebrew competition...

[delzep]

...a BJCP competition in category 15A, what would it score?

[johnrm]

Go for it.
It will only cost you 7.50 to find out.
Although it might fall foul of Bottle markings and unknown recipe.

[Pheeel]

I think we might have done it as part of the previous BJCP course. It wasn't pretty. Might have been 15 on my sheet!

I don't know why but reds are some of the easiest beers to screw up

[delzep]

I think we might have done it as part of the previous BJCP course. It wasn't pretty. Might have been 15 on my sheet!

I don't know why but reds are some of the easiest beers to screw up

But it's listed on BJCP as a commercial example, so it should surely score pretty high. The guidelines are taken from examples of the beers, not the other way around I would imagine

[nigel_c]

Should the club not put some "ringers" into the competition just to make sure the judges are are hitting the marks for styles?
Would only cost a few quid from the club and could provide some interesting numbers. No entry fee required if a plant.

[phildo79]

I imagine it would score poorly. I mean, it's hardly a world beater. But then again, when was the last time, if ever, you were blown away by a red ale? I'd be interested to find out what the current top rated red ale is. But I bet you I still wouldn't buy it if I seen it for sale.

[irish_goat]

But it's listed on BJCP as a commercial example, so it should surely score pretty high. The guidelines are taken from examples of the beers, not the other way around I would imagine

True but look at 15B Irish Stout. Guinness Draught and Beamish are listed there alongside Wrasslers and O'Haras which, imo, are world's apart. In 15B's case it almost looks like the wrote the guidelines based on Guinness but then widened all the parameters to include the craft stouts. I'd imagine the macro beers would score quite poorly anyway.

[johnrm]

That you mention it, and at the risk of opening old wounds...

Can anyone here vouch for changes in Smithwicks recipe akin to the alleged dumbing down of Guinness?

[irish_goat]

I remember Smithwicks being slightly fuller bodied and more bitter, but I can't say for sure if it's my tastes that have changed or the recipe...

[Dr Horrible]

Had a few pints last year one night and I thought it had improved but then tried again a while back and it was very bland again, must have been a one off.  Used to drink it a lot and it was never very flavourful from what I remember, just a reasonable sessionable beer.
I think it's going too far to dump all over the style because a macro version is a little bland, there's some great Irish Reds out there. Tried Rising Sons Redemption last weekend, very impressed.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[delzep]

Seems to be a bit of skirting around the bjcp examples. If smithwicks is listed (as it is), then how would it score poorly? I'm no fan of the beer at all, so it's not a bias thing (just like bjcp shouldn't be a bias thing surely?). Scoring should be against the guidelines, not against whether a judge likes the beer or not no?

[Boycott]

most of the BJCP examples are just shit. I just ignore them. They just pick popular ones so that people can get a sense of what they are referring to.

[Pheeel]

The examples are  baseline and should (generally speaking) be largely available for judges to axquire

Straight from the guidelines...
Commercial examples change over time. Just
as beer styles change, individual examples change as
well. Just because a beer was once a great example
of a style does not mean that it will always be a great
example of the style. Sometimes the beer changes
(with ownership change, perhaps) or sometimes the
style trend changes but the beer doesn't. Anchor
Liberty helped define the American IPA style when
it was created, but it seems much more like typical
American Pale Ales today.

[Padraic]

...a BJCP competition in category 15A, what would it score?

43/50

https://www.bjcp.org/course/sheets/9d_smithwicks.pdf

[delzep]

Thank you. I doubt the guidelines for Irish Red ale has changed much from being moved from 9d to 15a (Gordon Strong judged it to older 9d guidelines). Question for trained judges - do you agree with Gordon Strongs judging?