The biggest group buy of them all: the NHC microbrewery

[Spud395]

BTW, we spoke to someone recently who ran a very successful business covering all 5 of the above steps, and he is puzzled as to why micros are not sharing equipment, especially brew houses. It's madness that the kit is spending most of it's time doing nothing.

I agree, but with one owner/manager responsible. When you hire White Gypsy's brewery you do not brew, you get to help alright!

[Spud395]

Eight Degree's have rental space at the minute

[DEMPSEY]

Before a penny is put down,a clear understanding for me would be that this is a business,to make money by producing and selling beer. .
There is a lot of knowledge here on making good beer,but running this as a business,needs to be clearly defined. This co-op idea is a good one because the risk is shared and the work load is also shared. Spud is correct when he say's cleaning up and continuing to do so is very important. You would need people on site each day.

[Spud395]

They will, havnt spoken to them about it but I understand it's the same as White Gypsy.
You go along for the day and brew with them.

It cant work any other way. There's to much at risk!

[Rats]

A guy i know is in the proses of opening his own micro brewery here.Will give him this link if it's ok.Maybe he can give some info on this.

[brenmurph]

Can I add some more fuel to this debate on an ethical issue?

1
Can we really be called 'Homebrewers' from a 100,000 euro premises?
2
Is homebrew not about producing great beers from a few hundred euros of basic gear at home? Cant almost anyone make great beer with top of the range equipment and software
3
Is there not a fear that the whole ethos and mystery of brewing at home, waiting that few weeks/ months and having the first real tasters with a few mates at home or at one of the meet ups, this may/will dissapear with commercial level equipment and consistent brews?
4
Where does homebrew finish and craft/ commercial brewing start?
5
How can normal homebrewers ever compete at brew competitions against brewers with top notch facility and equipment and will it not alianate potential homebrew fans?

Above said, I love the sharing of resources, ideas and passion for real beer!

[Eoin]

I think that there is the kern of a good idea here, but the concept needs to be clear, at 10k it's not a hobby...it's almost a career change.

The idea of shared premises only works when there is a functioning brewery that shares their facilities with people, but there is a business ticking over at the heart of it.

I'd say it's worth talking about more but the dream needs to be seperated from reality, Dougal styleee

[DEMPSEY]

Can I add some more fuel to this debate on an ethical issue?

1
Can we really be called 'Homebrewers' from a 100,000 euro premises?
2
Is homebrew not about producing great beers from a few hundred euros of basic gear at home? Cant almost anyone make great beer with top of the range equipment and software
3
Is there not a fear that the whole ethos and mystery of brewing at home, waiting that few weeks/ months and having the first real tasters with a few mates at home or at one of the meet ups, this may/will dissapear with commercial level equipment and consistent brews?
4
Where does homebrew finish and craft/ commercial brewing start?
5
How can normal homebrewers ever compete at brew competitions against brewers with top notch facility and equipment and will it not alianate potential homebrew fans?

Above said, I love the sharing of resources, ideas and passion for real beer!

This is a wish thread,so ethic's dont apply,
1. we would be just bigger homebrewers with a big kit 8-),
2. having bigger equipment does not guarantee great beer,I have tasted better homebrew beer than what's on the market.
3.commercial and consistent are not 2 words that alway's go together with bigger brewery's.
4.when you ask someone to pay you for it. .
5. homebrewers would blow them out of the water at a professional tasting .
jesus I'm responding like TBN. 

[brenmurph]

So I agree most good homebrew is better than everyday commercial stuff. Here the question is referring to capable homebrews and competition winners who now invest in state of the art gear, are ye now still suggesting that theres no advantage compared to a homevbrewer using plastic buckets, a hand thermometer and a corny keg or bottles?

And really my comment was as a homebrew club is going 'commercial' not outside the remit of the club as stated on the main page "homebrewers for homebrewers"

Definition of homebrew is brewing at home. Brewing in a commercial premises is not really homebrew?

[brenmurph]

I dont disagree at all no harm in innovation, I'm sure theres already homebrewers using great gear. Theres just a risk with clubs that move too far away from the ordinay members and the members get lost in the process. Its just important to stary with the ethos of any club and not to leave others behind.

So wheres the gear most likely coming from? straight from China, from a middle man in Germany or what about gettin a passionate small Irish stainless steel shop to stay in business for another year or two with a nice bespoke contract? Any ideas?

[Padraic]

I like this concept Tube, it's probably the best way for a new entrant to enter the market. I think you need to get a few people together to get it off the ground. I think you'd need to have a smaller number than 10, 7 is a sweet spot in that if gives each brewer a day to brew on.

I think that as someone mentioned earlier that it would probably be best to have a brewing assistant on hand for everyone and this person(or two people) would be in charge of ensuring that equipment is clean etc.

I think it would be great to get the numbers put together and see what the setup costs would be and the running costs, because yes €10k for the kit might sound about right but obviously there would be some variable costs that would need to be organised as a group....

It's a good concept, that needs a bit of fleshing out and I might just be joining Declan on the list.

@Bren we can still be home brewers and pro brewers at the same time!

@Eoin I see where you are coming from but I think once the concept is fleshed out and the numbers are more solid it could be a great little co-op!

[Padraic]

I like this concept Tube,

Do you prefer it to Plan B?

Yes.

If I'm starting a brewery, I want it to be my brewery! I'm very interested in the idea of shared equipment to reduce the start up costs and red tape issues. But the idea for me is that once it's up and running shares can be sold on if you're not doing well or have out grown the the brewery co-op!

[brenmurph]

The venue will be a hot topic. i suppose factors to consider are

1
central location to the people involved; if 10 people from tallaght and 2 from leix then we wud need maybe naas road/ clondalkin or vice versa. prob is while we have great roads there are still awkward places e.g. kildare town to leixlip an hour traffic permitting. First impression for me would be  nangor road south near citywest interchange, this makes it an easy hop from leix/maynooth/lucan then city centre/tallaght clondalkin no prob and for me and others in kildare newbridge naas we have a lot  further to drive but at least its motorway all the way.
2
cost of rent. there are fantastic premises going for half nothing, Many new, some closed down bakeries, and probably even an old brewery in Newbridge! All the Celtic tiger industrial areas have plenty vacant premises many in nama......on this note coupld prob buy a place for 50k
3
commercial commute/ traffic/ access by customers deliveries and so on.
4
Energy efficiency/ insulated building/ environment/ water quality

[nigel_c]

Very interesting stuff. Love the idea of safety in numbers but personally I would be more for the idea of people going in as a company with key lines rather than everyone brews what they like. A single business plan and agreed direction before playing around with the new toys. Could be something I would look into. Safety in numbers.

[Padraic]

Very interesting stuff. Love the idea of safety in numbers but personally I would be more for the idea of people going in as a company with key lines rather than everyone brews what they like. A single business plan and agreed direction before playing around with the new toys. Could be something I would look into. Safety in numbers.

I see where you're coming from but if we did a co-op sort of setup you could make a grouping with one or two others and have the brewery for half of the week. I think the safety in the co-op system would be your ability to resell your share to the next brewer who is planning on setting up, I'm not saying it's a guaranteed resale but if you got the first 7 involved in a brewery then the within a couple of months I'm sure there would be one or two hovering to grab a share or one or two who want to expand.

The main problem with having 10 brewers is the whole too many cooks.... that and the hassle of making sure everyone pulls their weight.

I know there would be alot of hassle with a co-op as well but for me personally I'd be more interested in going down this route rather than a share in a brewery. If I were to go down the share route I'd probably be more interested in chatting to one of the existing brewers...