Mash tun temp question

[fizzypish]

I've been looking at a few recipes here and there and alot seem to have temp changes up and down at specific points over the mash time. Besides adding hot or cold water, what method do the advanced home brewers use to hit their temperatures? Is there a method of temperature control in the mash tun via thermostats or have ye all just become thermodynamic geniuses?
Cheers! :-?

[alealex]

Hi Fizzypish,
This might be the answer to your question. There are few different types of mashing tunes other than insulated box.
*1st is just simple pot
*2nd is herms or rims. mash runs tru coil in hlt, by adjusting water temp in hlt you regulate temp. of your mash
*3rd and most advanced of those is single vessel system, similar system used by spiedel brewmaister. With electronic pump and heating control.

Single vessel system is my ongoing project at the moment (electronic temp and pump control panel by Bolecki, wort cooling/mash insulating coat and 2x2kw heating elements, pic 4&5&6)
Wish me luck.

[Hop Bomb]

Ive a coolbox mash tun. To get those different mash temps you need to add different volumes of [ch730]c  water at specific times. I use Beersmith.com It tells you what to do step by step.

Ive only do one step mas though. All my brews have been single infusion mash since. Its easier & there is a lot of info to suggest that there isnt much to be gained with step mashing as grains are well modified now. Im open to correction on this as Im pretty new to AG brewing myself.

[fizzypish]

I was thinking it'd be difficult to get a universal temp change in a pot of what is essentially (from a thermal POV) cement. I presume the grain would in its own right act as an insulator so if multiple adjustable thermostats were placed in a container, their effect would be generally local to their area unless some kind of an agitator was used. I suppose you could continually re pump the liquid in the mash tun from the bottom back to the top externally and pass it through some form of in line heater. Continuous sparge with an external adjustable heater (apologies if any terminology is incorrect). I'm defiantly over thinking this.  : Lob it in and get the initial temp right and p**s off for an hour is probably going to be my initial strategy. 

[Hop Bomb]

Thats all a bit over my head. I just use beersmith software. It took a bit of trial and error but thats because I bulled into it without adding my own equipment profile.

In beersmith you set up your equipment profile for your set up. Measure you mash tun deadspace, ambient temps of mash tun & the temp of your grain. The it tells you exactly how many litres to add & at what temp & all going to plan you hit your mash temp to within a half degree or so.

[Dr Jacoby]

Another option is to rig up a steam injection system. Sounds advanced but all it involves is a pressure cooker attached to some good tubing that connects to a manifold inside your mash tun. You allow pressure to build up in the pressure cooker and release it through the tubing using a valve. The steam will heat the grain much more efficiently than adding hot water, plus you don't need to worry about starting with a thick mash and ending up with a thin one.

There's a simple enough article about it here. 

[Shane Phelan]

Another option is to rig up a steam injection system. Sounds advanced but all it involves is a pressure cooker attached to some good tubing that connects to a manifold inside your mash tun. You allow pressure to build up in the pressure cooker and release it through the tubing using a valve. The steam will heat the grain much more efficiently than adding hot water, plus you don't need to worry about starting with a thick mash and ending up with a thin one.

There's a simple enough article about it here. 

That's really interesting. He doesn't put the steam though the manifold due to the temperature but it would simplify things a lot of you went though the manifold.

[johnrm]

That's a great article.
I was considering boiling water through a coil to heat the mash but direct steam as described seems a lot easier

[DoWn2DiE]

Just thinking at loud here aswell what about a stainless mash tun, keg, pot, whatever inside a larger pot. the outside larger pot filled with water and a kettle element in there regulated by a PID. would the mash stay the same temp as water next door?

[Ciderhead]

you would have heat loss from the stainless but by experimentation you could find out where you would need your water temp to be,
that design sounds complicated, I am guessing you would have spacers on the bottom and sides to ensure even heat distribution throughout the mash?

[rukkus]

Whats wrong with direct heating the mash if you have a false bottom. Keeps it simple. I do similar when i do BIAB but i either lift the bag off the bottom or put it on a cake rack.

[Ciderhead]

False bottom wasn't mentioned just one pot inside another with liquid between being heated by element and controlled by PID, I'm thinking of heat transfer here and uniform distribution of the water.

[rukkus]

That wasn't aimed at you ciderhead, more of a general this is how i often deal with it

[Dr Jacoby]

That's really interesting. He doesn't put the steam though the manifold due to the temperature but it would simplify things a lot of you went though the manifold.

I didn't make this clear but I was actually thinking of hooking the tubing up to a second manifold that would sit on top of the standard one. It could just be a looped bit of tubing with holes on the top side or even a copper manifold.

The key is to have a big pressure cooker to make sure you build up enough energy. I don't understand the science but that's what I took from the stuff I've read about it. I picked up an 11 Litre pressure cooker last year for 30 quid on ebay. I haven't tried using it as a steam injector yet but I will over the next few months. I'll let you know how it works out. 

[Ciderhead]

That wasn't aimed at you ciderhead, more of a general this is how i often deal with it

no sweat