VWP Cheaper alternatives?

[Shane Phelan]

For cleaning I use hot water and a microfibre cloth on plastic and a Vileda sponge on metal.  I use Chemipro Oxi on anything that has hard to reach nooks.

Everything is sanitized with Starsan before using again.  It's great because a large bottle will last ages.  It's expensive, but it can be reused several times as everything is already clean.  Just bottle it in a 5l plastic bottle and keep till next you need it.

I've been doing this for over a year now and never had a problem.

I'm wary about using supermarket oxi cleaners.  They are only about 30% oxi cleaner, so what is the other 70%?  And is it food safe?  I couldn't find any info on this, but since they are sold for laundry use I'm not willing to risk it.

I was thinking of getting that to clean the 'haze' of dirt on the inside of my bottles as the bottle brush simply isn't working. Would it work for that by just soaking or does it still need to be scrubbed?

[Metattron]

I use it to clean demijohns and soaking usually does the job.  I usually give it a go over with the brush too though, to be sure to be sure.

[Eoin]

If you have hard water it turns the star san milky, and this is the point that the guy from Five Star says that star san is no longer effective and it is not a good idea to keep it and reuse it.
If you use RO or distilled water then it stays clear and you can put it away to use the next time and save lots of star san.

This has been disputed by a few people online who have run experiments and found that the pH remains very low even when Starsan goes cloudy. I can't remember where I read about this but maybe Adam would know?

My Starsan goes cloudy almost straight away but seems to remain effective. I haven't seen the need to use distilled/RO water.

I'm going by the owners recommendations, Charley Tally gives a webcast on star san, and also I'm going on my local water matched with my pH meter.
When I test my water it won't go below about 3.4 and that's just at the edge of the effective range, I'm happier using Halfords battery water.

[DEMPSEY]

What are commercial brewers using to clean sealed up tanks like pressurized conical's. I know that they have CIP (clean in place) spheres that spray a cleaner all around the inside but having no way to physically scrub the inside it would need to be mighty stuff .

[irish_goat]

What are commercial brewers using to clean sealed up tanks like pressurized conical's. I know that they have CIP (clean in place) spheres that spray a cleaner all around the inside but having no way to physically scrub the inside it would need to be mighty stuff .

On my visit to Metalman Nathan told me they get inside the containers every so often and give them a full scrub down. Not sure how that would work on a massive industrial tank though. :/

[Dr Jacoby]

Caustic soda is used quite a bit I believe

[DEMPSEY]

Is that what they use. Great stuff when you need to clear a drain and such but you would want to be certain that none remains in the sphere after.

[Dr Jacoby]

This is interesting: http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1346-sanitation-tips-from-the-pros

[Metattron]

I'd say it's in Charley Tallys interest to tell you to throw out cloudy starsan.  The more you use the happier he'll be!  Just check it's ph to see for yourself.  Mine is always cloudy with tap water but it always does it's job.

[Rossa]

I'd say it's in Charley Tallys interest to tell you to throw out cloudy starsan.  The more you use the happier he'll be!  Just check it's ph to see for yourself.  Mine is always cloudy with tap water but it always does it's job.

Mine too. Will tells me water from a fish shop would reduce time before the cloudy decends...RO perhaps?

[brenmurph]

Will swears by Lidls "W5" non perfumed one, but I think he also washes his smalls in his brew buckets

12 months using this w5 oxy action (non perfumed) 80 brews later zero infections! Cleans like a dream, totally ozone friendly as it decomposes to salt and oxygen ( open to correction).
fabulous stuff, cheap and its exactly the same as the homebrew stuff in a tiny container for 3.50.
this is about 2.50 in lidls.

warning wear gloves as it will dissolve your skin.

theres nothing better or cheaper than this product

[David]

I use soda crystals to clean very cheap and gives a good clean with out scrubbing. You need to give a good rinse while still wet or you will be left with a powdery residue which will need a good soak and rinse to remove. Usually costs about 1euro for 500g in most supermarkets.

[brenmurph]

I agree but dont agree.

The industrial suppliers of oxy action vwp and also "wilko bruclens cleaner and steriliser" state it kills bacteria, viruses, moulds, and spores. Sodium percarbonate is the ingredient. As far as Im aware it denatures everything it touches making it a steriliser not a cleaner.
Would be good to get an official Chemists scientific report on this stuff coz it would clear up a lot and save a fortune. VWP is the same sodium percarbonate at 10 times the price as well as other " homebrew" steriliser. I also believe it is a no rinse and if rinsing it rinses efficiently in a tiny amount of water unlike bleaches which you have to hose down forever. It is completly odourless and eco friendly decomposes in 24 hours.
Also a good weedkiller spray but dont inhale it or u will loose your bronchial linings!

Open to correction / debate!

[brenmurph]

Caustic soda is used quite a bit I believe

dont they use hydrogen peroxide?

[Covey]

I agree but dont agree.

The industrial suppliers of oxy action vwp and also "wilko bruclens cleaner and steriliser" state it kills bacteria, viruses, moulds, and spores. Sodium percarbonate is the ingredient. As far as Im aware it denatures everything it touches making it a steriliser not a cleaner.
Would be good to get an official Chemists scientific report on this stuff coz it would clear up a lot and save a fortune. VWP is the same sodium percarbonate at 10 times the price as well as other " homebrew" steriliser. I also believe it is a no rinse and if rinsing it rinses efficiently in a tiny amount of water unlike bleaches which you have to hose down forever. It is completly odourless and eco friendly decomposes in 24 hours.
Also a good weedkiller spray but dont inhale it or u will loose your bronchial linings!


Open to correction / debate!

Agreed
I think there is a mix up when it comes to Cleaning and Stanitization. Cleaning is the removal of dirt or grime, stanitization is the reduction of germs. If you have something visiable clean by using water alone you can then go straight to stanitizing the item. This no rince nonsense is gas too, if there is a tiny droplets of any santizter it can not impact on 23l of nice tasty beer. My opinion only. But i do work in a lab.