Haunted by Chill Haze

[Alex Lawes]

I moved onto cold conditioning and using proper finnings a few months ago but I'm not getting much success with it.

Hopefully I nail it on the next batch but I was wondering about everyone else's process here.

I get a good hard boil, chill to -1 after secondary then get a good chill haze going. I used isinglass first but results weren't noticeable enough.

Tried the auld gelatine trick there but no use on the next batch either.

Beers have been clear at ambient temp but that's not what I'm aiming for. Also means we're not into 'permanent haze' as well.

I'm considering PVPP, but it's pricey.

I refuse to be beat by this and won't be happy till I've got crystal clear beer at -2 degrees.

Any suggestions?

[Alex Lawes]

You using Irish Moss post chilling?

[Alex Lawes]

Thought I'd missed out on something there. No I use plenty of whirlfloc and that. no probs with break material.

Just looking for some industrial strength finnings I think. I'll give the next IPA another go with gelatine and see how it goes.

[imark]

I understood IPA is accepted to be somewhat hazy due to the heavy hopping.

[Alex Lawes]

I say excuses!

Hop oils can be combated with finnings. Gelatine is supposed to be decent at pulling it out.

Fairly certain I'll be spending the next few weeks perfecting this. 

[AdeFlesk]

what about this article ... any help ?

http://byo.com/american-pale-ale/item/486-conquer-chill-haze

[Stitch]

Alex I had the same problem for 3 months. Kept thinking it was the process when I got a few beers off another brewer. They were also hazy. When I asked him he said his beers were clear as was the rest of the batch This then pointed away from the process. Turns out I opened the fridge and found that the sta had been set all the way up to 5 (no sure who did that but was not me). Turned back down to 3 and the haze left the beer. I guess the lesson is that not always the recipe or the process is at fault. My beer is still being served cold btw.

[Dr Jacoby]

Can you describe the process you use to chill the wort and then separate it from the cold break materials and hop trub? Chill haze can usually be traced to problems at this stage.

I find the best way to clarify my beer is to let it sit in a keg at 2C for a week. But this works for me because I am careful to leave the cold break materials behind in the boiler. If these materials are transferred over they are very difficult to deal with if you don't use a filter set below 5 microns.

[DEMPSEY]

I would start by examining your brewing process. Did you always have a clarity problem,if not what changed,method or equipment. If it has always being a problem then start with the mash.
What temp are you mashing at,if single infusion mash are your temperatures correct,is the run off carrying too much debris. Remember the material that usually cause haze are proteins and Tannins.
Next is the boil,a good strong rolling boil to break down the proteins. The Irish moss at the end is important to help clump this together.
Next the cooling of the Wort. The faster you cool the wort the better. I myself have built a counterflow chiller but I am still in favour of an immersion chiller for this reason. 

[Bazza]

See, I've always wondered about the necessity to cool as quickly as possible. I know it sounds like it should make sense  but how does that leave us if the recipe requires an aroma steep at 80 degrees for 1/2 hour. Are these beers always destined to be hazy because they weren't crash cooled?

-Barry

[ColmR]

Alex, have you looked into White Lab's Clarity-Ferm product? I picked up a packet from HBC recently to try it out. My first batch is now bottled and should know in a couple of weeks what effect (if any) it has.

[Ciderhead]

My kolsch went crystal with that product, I'm a believer!


Sent from my mediocre phone and an average phone app

[Hop Bomb]

My kolsch went crystal with that product, I'm a believer!


Sent from my mediocre phone and an average phone app

With clarity ferm or isinglass?

[Alex Lawes]

Hey lads,

I've only got haze problems since I began chilling below zero.

I've only ever bottle conditioned at ambient temps.

I of course use copper finings and have got good results from whirlfloc.
Good hard boil, leave break behind etc.
Cooling happens with an immersion chiller in 20mins depending on temp of tap water.
I honestly haven't come across haze issues in the past three years.
Just trying to get some input on how people are using post fermentation finings.
Fermented beer goes into the chiller crystal clear. Comes out like a hefe.

In my opinion it's an issue of polyphenols.
If at ambient temps the haze again disappears it makes it an issue of how I'm using my finings.
Using isinglass on its own just won't cut it.
I need auxiliary finings first to bond, then isinglass to get the last flocs out.

I think Ciderhead is on the mark with the PVPP. It's expensive but hey, It's cheaper than the off-licence and I'm learning every step.

If there is success with PVPP I'll look into different auxiliaries prior to Isinglass or gelatine. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks lads.

[Partridge9]

I found (strangely) the process of moving it into secondary gave my beer a haze.

I now let the beer sit in primary for 2 weeks and then put it in the fridge at 4C for 2-3 days - I then transfer it using a tube out of the fridge into a keg or bottling bucket.

I wouldn't crash cool below 1C - I read that somewhere.