Saison Recipe - Input required...

[halite]

So I am planning on brewing a Saison, which I have never done before. Would be interested in some feedback on this recipe. I know it is a little understrength for a Saison but that is what I wanted:

Size: 35.52 L @ 20 °C
Efficiency: 75%
Attenuation: 80.0%

Original Gravity: 1.048 (1.048 - 1.065)
Terminal Gravity: 1.010 (1.002 - 1.012)
Color: 10.24 (9.85 - 27.58)
Alcohol: 5.06% (5.0% - 7.0%)
Bitterness: 20.5 (20.0 - 35.0)

Ingredients:
7000 g (86.6%) Pilsner Malt - added during mash
665 g (8.2%) Rye Malt - added during mash
164 g (2.0%) Belgian Aromatic - added during mash
250 g (3.1%) Carapils®/Carafoam® - added during mash
45 g (47.4%) East Kent Goldings (4.9%) - added during boil, boiled 60 m
25 g (26.3%) Saaz (5.1%) - added during boil, boiled 20 m
1 tsp Irish Moss - added during boil, boiled 15 m
25 g (26.3%) Saaz (5.1%) - added during boil
2 ea White Labs WLP566 Belgian Saison II

Notes
Double batch, plan is to get 20 L and 15 L, 20 L will primary with WLP566 and then kegged and carbed, 15 L will primary with WLP670 for three months, and then Keg (1/2 keg) and bottle.
Mash at 65c

Any thoughts/suggestions?

[Dr Jacoby]

I'd contact RichieH about this. He's your man for Saison advice, and all things brewing related in Belgium. 

[MAF]

I'd forget about the Carapils, no point really.
The rye will work well.

[Shane Phelan]

Isn't the carapils for head retention though?

[irish_goat]

Carapils add unfermentables so improve mouthfeel and body as well and it can add a little caramel, toasted flavour.

[Dr Jacoby]

Carapils is primarily designed to boost sweetness and body without contributing much on the flavour front. It also boosts head retention.

I don't think it contributes toasty flavours (or is intended to do so), at least it hasn't in my experience. Is there a variety that does this?

It's very handy for boosting sweetness in pale coloured ales in place of other caramel malts which would darken the beer.

[halite]

OK, should I kill the carapils and leave the rest as is?

Mark

[Dr Jacoby]

Saisons should finish dry so I'd say take it out. Otherwise it looks good!

[halite]

Thanks for the input.

Mark

[imark]

Carapils may behave differently than expected if you use some Brett. Brett will ferment this so it could be useful if you wanted to go that direction.

[halite]

Got some input from RichieH and so final recipe looks like this:

Little Saison d'Bray
16-C Saison
Author: Mark

Size: 35.52 L @ 20 °C
Efficiency: 70.0%
Attenuation: 80.0%

Original Gravity: 1.045 (1.048 - 1.065)
Terminal Gravity: 1.009 (1.002 - 1.012)
Color: 9.37 (9.85 - 27.58)
Alcohol: 4.66% (5.0% - 7.0%)
Bitterness: 34.5 (20.0 - 35.0)

Ingredients:
7800 g (97.9%) Pilsner Malt - added during mash
164 g (2.1%) Belgian Aromatic - added during mash
60 g (31.6%) East Kent Goldings (4.9%) - added during boil, boiled 60 m
35 g (18.4%) Saaz (5.1%) - added during boil, boiled 20 m
35 g (18.4%) East Kent Goldings (4.9%) - added during boil, boiled 20 m
1 tsp Irish Moss - added during boil, boiled 15 m
30 g (15.8%) Saaz (5.1%) - added during boil
30 g (15.8%) East Kent Goldings (4.9%) - added during boil



Notes
Double batch, plan is to get 20 L and 15 L, 20 L will primary with WLP566 and then kegged and carbed,, 15 L will primary with WLP670 for three months, and then Keg (1/2 keg) and bottle condition for three months.
Mash at 64/65c

[richieh]

you mean 3 weeks right?  even still, that could be a bit long for primary. 2 is more than enough I'd say.

[halite]

No actually I meant 3 months. I want to leave the Brett to allow the flavour to develop. Have read a few posts of guys in the US that have left this yeast for three months and they seem to get good results.