A Beer for my 'Lager' friends

[Eoink]

I am going to try and brew a beer my 'Industrial Lager' friends would like, but still have some flavour. Is this an impossible task? 

I don't have any chilling facilities so a lager is out. I was thinking of a light blonde ale, using the following.

Pilsner malt – 4100g
Wheat Malt – 450g
Challenger – 15g at start of boil
Hallertau – 7g 15 mins from end
Hallertau - 7g  at end of boil
I hope I haven't gone overboard on the hops!
White Labs Kolsch yeast.
Irish Moss
19l batch


Would keeping the mash below, say 63C, give a lighter beer and still be efficent?

[christhebrewer]

I'm planning a similar mission but I will probably try a lager, I have temp control.
That is almost no hops at all! Is that really how little hops to use?
I belive you can get a drier beer by replacing some of the malt with sugar. Any merit in this?

[Pheeel]

If you don't have temp control I'd go with a Pale

[Eoink]

I'm planning a similar mission but I will probably try a lager, I have temp control.
That is almost no hops at all! Is that really how little hops to use?
I belive you can get a drier beer by replacing some of the malt with sugar. Any merit in this?

I agree it is much less hops than I would normally use but I am trying to use  minimum hops for this beer
I think you might be right about the sugar I will reduce the malt and add some sugar maybe 500g to start.

[Ciderhead]

I did a Stella Clone which is one of these with temp control
Problem is it tastes just like Stella


Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
4.60 kg               Pilsner (2 Row) UK (3.0 EBC)             Grain         1        100.0 %       
45.00 g               Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min            Hop           2        21.7 IBUs     
0.25 tsp              Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)              Fining        3        -             
15.00 g               Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min             Hop           4        1.4 IBUs     
2.0 pkg               Saflager Lager (DCL/Fermentis #W-34/70)


When temps change consider the WL 810 San Fran Lager strain which is good in the 14-18 range
http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp810-san-francisco-lager-yeast

[christhebrewer]

Give us the mash steps and the fermentation temps.

[Ciderhead]

Give us the mash steps and the fermentation temps.

For?

[UpsidedownA (Andrew)]

I am going to try and brew a beer my 'Industrial Lager' friends would like, but still have some flavour. Is this an impossible task? 

I don't have any chilling facilities so a lager is out. I was thinking of a light blonde ale, using the following.

Pilsner malt – 4100g
Wheat Malt – 450g
Challenger – 15g at start of boil
Hallertau – 7g 15 mins from end
Hallertau - 7g  at end of boil
I hope I haven't gone overboard on the hops!
White Labs Kolsch yeast.
Irish Moss
19l batch


Would keeping the mash below, say 63C, give a lighter beer and still be efficent?

That looks like a good recipe for that job description to me (with the caveat that I have no knowledge of the Koelsch yeast). I don't know your mashing set up, but if you mash that low, it would be a good idea to raise the temperature to 72C for 15 minutes after your saccharification rest somehow to ensure you have full and adequate starch conversion. You will get a haze from unconverted starch otherwise as 63C is too low for optimal alpha-amylase activity. If you can't do a stepped mash, run the first runnings off into the kettle, heat that gently to 72 and take off the heat. Meanwhile batch sparge the grains with strikewater that will give you 72C for about 5minutes to get that conversion in the second runnings. You know if you have full conversion if a few drops of iodine in a sample fail to turn black-ish. Starch turns iodine black/navy. (apologies if you know this stuff already)

[Eoink]

[/quote]

That looks like a good recipe for that job description to me (with the caveat that I have no knowledge of the Koelsch yeast). I don't know your mashing set up, but if you mash that low, it would be a good idea to raise the temperature to 72C for 15 minutes after your saccharification rest somehow to ensure you have full and adequate starch conversion. You will get a haze from unconverted starch otherwise as 63C is too low for optimal alpha-amylase activity. If you can't do a stepped mash, run the first runnings off into the kettle, heat that gently to 72 and take off the heat. Meanwhile batch sparge the grains with strikewater that will give you 72C for about 5minutes to get that conversion in the second runnings. You know if you have full conversion if a few drops of iodine in a sample fail to turn black-ish. Starch turns iodine black/navy. (apologies if you know this stuff already)
[/quote]


I use BIAB, Brewed toady and followed your advice and turned it up to 73C for the last 15 mins. Unfortunatly I dont have any iodine for testing - must put it on the shopping list.

From WYeast Labs on Koelsch

This strain is a classic, true top cropping yeast strain from a traditional brewery in Cologne, Germany. Beers will exhibit some of the fruity character of an ale, with a clean lager like profile. It produces low or no detectable levels of diacetyl.

The only problem with it is low flocuation so it may be a little bit cloudy- which may be a turn off for Heinekin drinkers.

It is fermenting now -  I  will test it on a Heinekin drinker in a few weeks

[UpsidedownA (Andrew)]

Hope it works out. You should be able to pick up iodine from any chemist without much expense. I never used to bother but I always try to do it now.

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

I have it on good account that 'Cream of Three Crops' is a staple BMC/Industrial Fizz fan converter.

Also google for 'Centennial Blonde' - a US pale ale with cascade & centennial. The hop quantities are on spec for what you are trying to brew.

Both of these beers tend to clear quick and finish fast too.

Also, if you have issues with haze & bad flocculation, try gelatin (powdered) or agar agar (seaweed extract).

[Eoink]

FINAL REPORT

The beer is bland and totally lacks body - I needed a good espresso porter to revive my taste buds.


I won't be trying this again - they can buy their own budweiser

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

Try the Centennial Blonde. The hopping levels are about the same weight as you put in for your pilsener/saaz ale, but they are using more robust flavour hops (Cascade & Centennial).

It uses some amount of cara malt (will have to check my recipe) so it has some body, but my version had a low OG, so it is a light beer.

The version I made is very sensitive to correct temperature (you want slightly above refrigerated). Haven't run it by anyone except the highly discriminating OH who likes it, and picked up on the serving temperature issue.

I wouldn't torture myself trying to make BMC/Heinoberg clones, for people whose taste buds are in stockholm syndrome with those beers. But you can challenge people with some ales.

[SB]

The Centennial Blonde is a great recipe.  Easy to make and it clears really quick.  My two BMC drinking brothers in law were coverrted to ales after drinking it so it does work!