Remediating solventy off-flavours

[mr hoppy]

I brewed an Orval clone back in July. Unfortunately without adequate temp control (darn swamp cooler) it got way too hot way to fast and ended up tasting of solvent and fruit cake. Oops.

I'd persevere so I moved it to a carboy after a few weeks and added dregs from 4 bottles of Orval to get some brett action going. At this point it had dropped from 1063 to 1016. 4 months later it's down to 1012 - so the brett is working - but it still tastes pretty crappy. Based on the way it tastes crappy and how it happened I imagine that the issues are fusel alcohols and probably ethyl acetate. Both of these are chemical, rather than infection / biological off-tastes so what's there is there and it's not going to get any worse.

I've been wondering if I make another similar batch of beer (but targeting a real low finishing gravity out of the primary so as to avoid bretty bottle bombs) I can blend the two and dilute the nastiness away?

Has anyone done this?

Is it possible to do trial tastings by mixing the problem beer with something else (I was thinking Smithwicks or something similar) to see at what point things start to improve?

I know that fusel alcohols subsist somewhat with time. Is this true of other high temp nastiness as well?

[Ciderhead]

I'm sorry for your trouble, you will only water down what is there already and worse still you will know the taste is there and be "hunting for it"
using an excellent beer to prop up a poor one is a bit of a waste of time imo.
Plenty of opportunity to use the crummy one in stews or casseroles or gravy this time of year and save the good stuff to drink with it.


95 sleeps till NHC Competition.

[Greg2013]

I'm sorry for your trouble, you will only water down what is there already and worse still you will know the taste is there and be "hunting for it"
using an excellent beer to prop up a poor one is a bit of a waste of time imo.
Plenty of opportunity to use the crummy one in stews or casseroles or gravy this time of year and save the good stuff to drink with it.


95 sleeps till NHC Competition.

Have had a few disasters with solventy kit brews due to non existent temp control and poor water quality (as CH knows well) i concur with CH on this. IMHO you have two choices, use it in a stew or dump it down the drain. Time will do nothing for this off flavour, i still have 40 odd bottles of coopers larger here i was hoping after 6 months would lose that chemical flavour, never happened and they are being dumped soon.Cheeers.

[Damofto]

not sure if this would solve your problem but came across this the other day.  The guy is using CO2 to scrub off flavours from his beer, you need a beer gun though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeHnWjmoz1o

[Eoin]

Agree with CH, don't throw good after bad. You'll at best end up with a lot of meh.

Sent from my HTC One

[Greg2013]

He he i am friends with that guy online, thing is for that beer he is scrubbing he did not quite get all the ick out and it also killed a lot of the malt profile AND he had to dry hop with a lot of nelson sauvin after scrubbing.

[Ciderhead]

Good way of flush excess co2 from your beer, but as for closing stable door when the horse is clearly over the hills na
We all brew a bad batch in our brewing careers, I know its time consuming and we don't want to waste but just let it go with full military honours, bury at sea and put down to a learning experience 

[mr hoppy]

I live by Revvy on homebrewtalk's dictum that you never dump a batch, so that's not happening!

I was thinking about it again and I think I might leave it sit for a few more months. I've had other beers with T-58 come off very estery and mellow over time - particularly if store outside over the winter months. It'll also give the brett more time to do it's thing.

[Ciderhead]

Let it go Mr H, spend time on new brews unless you are gonna call this one Jesus and put it in a cave it ain't coming back, not after 3 days weeks or months.

Just reviewing your initial post how big was your starter and how did you oxygenate as it may not have been temperature?

[Eoin]

Revvy is a dickhead... Just saying like.

Sent from my HTC One

[donnchadhc]

If it was a Belgium yeast, high temps can give solvent depending on type. Check this chart from Whitelabs.

Happened to me when I deliberately pushed temps high on a tripel a few years ago, it didn't come back for what it's worth.

[mr hoppy]

T-58 is a Belgian dry yeast and don't worry I'm spending time on new brews. 

It's been in the cave for a few months already - so a bit longer won't hurt!

[mr hoppy]

Revvy is a dickhead... Just saying like.

Just wondering why? I've not read huge volumes of his posts so genuinely curious.

[Ciderhead]

Didn't read it was T58 in original recipe, how did you aerate?
Ideal 15-20 fermentation temp according to spec sheet, uh oh, that's comes across as on the low side.
Tis done now in any case and do post back when you are using it for slug bait in May?


Somewhere around the M50

[mr hoppy]

Can't remember - think it was an airstone. Never ever had aeration issues in five years of brewing.

Tasted this again and it tastes ok, a bit like a dubbel really (probably because of the candi syrup - should have used table sugar). It's definitely a lot better than it was a couple of months ago which is something that I've seen at least twice before with this yeast at high temps.

It's been aging since August when I put brett in it, so it's going to taste of "horse blanket" in a month or two anyway. The FG was 1016 after it came out of the primary. When the brett gets it down to 1008 I'll dry hop it and bottle it.