Startup questions (winemaking)

[Dunkel]

The wonderful SWMBO has decreed that I should start making some wine for herself. I have absolutely no experience in this, and the only knowledge I have gained has been through http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,81.0.html

So, I have a few newbie questions.

1) Being motivationally challenged (i.e. lazy), can I get away with primary fermentation to secondary to bottle?

2) How important is the headspace in secondary fermentation? I intend making 30 bottles at a time, from kits - should the secondary fermenter be 23l or 25l?

3) Which impinges upon equipment - which of these would be best for a beginner? (I do intend eventually going for the higher quality, 4-6 week kits)

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewsmarter-traditional-wine-starter-kit-1392-p.asp
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewsmarter-premium-wine-starter-kit-3355-p.asp
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewsmarter-syphonless-wine-starter-kit-1084-p.asp
or something like http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewingfermentation-bucket-brewferm-30-l-graduated-2215-p.asp + http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brouwland-quality-pet-carboy-23-litres-with-bung-and-airlock-3278-p.asp + http://www.homebrewwest.ie/automatic-syphon-23-litre--17-m-tubing-125-p.asp

4) I know, a lot of questions, but how much does the wine clarify in secondary/tertiary? Is some kind of filtration necessary?

And finally 5) Is it possible to reuse screwcap wine bottles, or should I use new corks every time?

Confused of downthecountryish 

[LordEoin]

Where do I start?.....

5) Is it possible to reuse screwcap wine bottles?
Yes. no problem. they're probably better so long as you don't damage the delicate threads. Otherwise use synthetic corks.

4)much does the wine clarify in secondary/tertiary? Is some kind of filtration necessary?
That totally depends on the wine. I have a rosehip wine that is (apart from a pass through a seive into the demijohn) is now completely clear after 2 or 3 months and still bubbling away in primary. On the other hand I have a blackberry wine that's clear as muck but finished fermenting 2 months ago, even after finings.
In a clear wine, filtration gives a sparkle. In a cloudy rustic wine it wont do much (apart from clog filers)

2) How important is the headspace in secondary fermentation? I intend making 30 bottles at a time, from kits - should the secondary fermenter be 23l or 25l?
I'd go with the 25L if you have it, but it totally depends on your definition of 'secondary'. For me, secondary begins once the first bulk sediment has dropped out and fermentation slows.
I've had wines that have just slowed and wines that have stopped.
For wines that have slowed, use the 25L, for ones that have stopped use the 23.5L.
I'd be hesitant to use the 23.5L though as that will only give you a pint of head space...

1) Being motivationally challenged (i.e. lazy), can I get away with primary fermentation to secondary to bottle?
You can get away with primary to bottle if you're patient.
But secondary to bottle will allow you to use finings and stabilisers, etc.
It's rare that I'd bottle wine even from secondary, but again it depends on the wine.

and that only leaves one question...
3) Which impinges upon equipment
I'll have to come back to you on that one.

The wonderful SWMBO has decreed that I should start making some wine for herself. I have absolutely no experience in this, and the only knowledge I have gained has been through http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,81.0.html

So, I have a few newbie questions.

1) Being motivationally challenged (i.e. lazy), can I get away with primary fermentation to secondary to bottle?

2) How important is the headspace in secondary fermentation? I intend making 30 bottles at a time, from kits - should the secondary fermenter be 23l or 25l?

3) Which impinges upon equipment - which of these would be best for a beginner? (I do intend eventually going for the higher quality, 4-6 week kits)

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewsmarter-traditional-wine-starter-kit-1392-p.asp
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewsmarter-premium-wine-starter-kit-3355-p.asp
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewsmarter-syphonless-wine-starter-kit-1084-p.asp
or something like http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewingfermentation-bucket-brewferm-30-l-graduated-2215-p.asp + http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brouwland-quality-pet-carboy-23-litres-with-bung-and-airlock-3278-p.asp + http://www.homebrewwest.ie/automatic-syphon-23-litre--17-m-tubing-125-p.asp

4) I know, a lot of questions, but how much does the wine clarify in secondary/tertiary? Is some kind of filtration necessary?


Confused of downthecountryish 

[LordEoin]

Dunkel... you've too much money on your hands...
30 bottles? try this + this
For feck sake, people have been making wine for thousands of years in our equivalent of a bucket of juice left in the garden in a BnQ value saver bucket covered in clingfilm...

But from what you linked I'd go for 2X http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewingfermentation-bucket-brewferm-30-l-graduated-2215-p.asp + a length of tubing for transfer

(provided you've already got basic equipment like a hydrometer etc)

[Col]

As regards screw-caps, you can re-use them several times before they wear out. As said, don't over-tighten, because the threads are delicate, and I always cut off the collar off the bottle; it's a place for nasties to live behind, and I find the bottles are less likely to leak with the collar removed. Oh, and be careful sterilising the caps; the metal will re-act with some sterilisers. I just pop them in boiling water for a few minutes, prior to burning my fingers...

[Dunkel]

Many thanks for the replies LE and Col. Now off to the homebrew site 

[@geterbrewed]

Hope you don't mind me putting forward my starter packs to give you another option;

http://www.geterbrewed.com/complete-kits

[Dunkel]

Not at all! After reading LordEoin's post, and looking at what equipment I already have, I am going to start with

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewingfermentation-bucket-brewferm-30-l-graduated-2215-p.asp
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/25-litre-fermentation-vessel-full-colour-graduated-fitted-with-airlock-and-tap-2970-p.asp
and 2 x http://www.homebrewwest.ie/large-self-adhesive-liquid-crystal-thermometer-10-to-40-oc-vertical-336-p.asp

So a starter kit for €37  All I need now is the wine kit. Thanks, guys!

[Shane Phelan]

I'm also looking into doing a few wine kits as presents. Will probably get one of the 20L vinotainer's rather than bottling. From reading around online they seem to be fine for relatively long term storage (0 - 6 month range).

[Dunkel]

Could be an option for the future, alright. There's no way my wine will not be drunk within six months 

[Will_D]

After fermentation when the wine has dropped clear I rack into a 20/25L FG plastic Jerry Can.

A few weeks resting then I fill a 1 gallon Vinotainer ( B-in-Box ).

The problem with using a 20L Vinotainer is that after about the first 10 litres you will start pulling in air as the poly-bag is not that collapsible! Also they are HUGH compared to the 1 gallon size.

You can have about 3 or 4 different 1 gallon boxes in the same space!

[Shane Phelan]

Oh I didn't realise the collapsing issue, would two 10L be a better choice instead?

[Will_D]

Oh I didn't realise the collapsing issue, would two 10L be a better choice instead?

I am sure Yes.

But my premise was smaller is better for dispense. It obviously depends on how quick you and (SWMBOB) can drink the old vino!

We do about 3 or 4L a week

So a 5L box of Red and 5L of white is the way to go (lasts about 2 weeks or even more).

Then after the meal we switch to the Port! (20 gallons a year)

[Dunkel]

Will, does the 5l Vinotainer fit in the fridge?

[Will_D]

Will, does the 5l Vinotainer fit in the fridge?

Yes: Its 20cm x 20cm x 23 cm deep

[Dunkel]

So bottled my first attempt tonight. Have to say, quite impressed! Kit (Pinot Grigio http://www.homebrewwest.ie/australian-blend-pinot-grigio-nb-no-free-bucket-1330-p.asp ) worked out very well. Clarity was far better than expected; not completly star-bright. but certainly not hazy at all. Aromas were of peach (not usual with PG; usually more pears), dry, actually drinkable at this stage. But expect it to be much better in a month. Alcohol low at about 10%, but that suits SWMBO.
Considering this is one of the low-middle quality wine kits, and I intend to go up the scale, I'm a happy camper at this stage.
Next time I intend to a proper review. But so far, me and the missus are hooked