Steeping versus boiling hops

[Eoghan]

I was looking at some recipes on the coopers website.
There are at least 3 ways of adding hops to the kits described.

The first, and easiest, is dry hopping.
I think I know what this is, it adds aroma to the beer depending on the variety of the hops, e.g.

• Cascade - Floral/citrus
• Fuggles - Grassy and minty
• Willamette - Estery blackcurrant and herbal aroma

This information is mainly derived from these hop specs, please correct me if I am wrong (especially if you have a better source for this kind of information).
Also, I have just ordered the three mentioned above, so if you have any comments as to what combinations/quantities would be good or bad let me know.

The second is steeping used in the coopers fruit salad.
Here they make a "hop infusion" by mixing 25g Cascade and 25g Amarillo hops in a couple of liters of water just taken off the boil and allow it to steep for 30 mins.

The third is in the coopers ashes ale.
In which they boil 15g of EKG with 250g DME and 2l water for 15 minutes. Then add 25g of Bramling Cross and steep that for 30 minutes.

Can anybody explain the differences between the steep and the boil?
And how each of these methods would affect the three hop varieties listed above.

I am sorry if this sounds like an ad for coopers it was not intentional and I have no affiliation with them.
Thanks for the help/advice.

[johnrm]

These are techniques for extracting flavor and aroma from hops.
In all grain, hops can be added at many points after the writer comes from the mash run, before it is boiled. During the boil, after the boil, after primary fermentation.
The techniques employed here mimic all grain hopping.

[LordEoin]

boils below.
dryhop for extra aroma.

[Eoghan]

Eoin, I saw that graph on your How to Kit Hack (an intermediate guide) thread. (That thread should be stickied, by the way.)
But it does not explain the difference between steeping and boiling, if there is any.

If I steep 25g Cascade for 30 minutes, is it the same as if I boiled it for 30 minutes?

While checking this out in BeerSmith I noticed that there was a Steep/Whirlpool option for the hops.
According to BeerSmith this 25g Cascade will give 9.1IBUs if steeped, and 18.2IBUs if boiled.

So I think this answers part of my question.
But is the flavour and the aroma changed in the same way?
Is the 30 minute steep equivalent to a 15 minute boil?

Also, when boiling is it necessary to boil it in wort, or is it just as good to boil it in plain water?

[johnrm]

30 min boil and 30 min steep is not the same.
The boil will boil of more aromatics and result on more bitterness.
Eoins chart is based on boil time.

[irish_goat]

Also, when boiling is it necessary to boil it in wort, or is it just as good to boil it in plain water?

You won't get the same hop utilisation if you boil in plain water (assuming you mean boiling the hops on the stove in a couple of liters of water).

[LordEoin]

Steeping is just like making a cup of tea.
You take the water off the boil, add the hops and let it sit.
Depending on the volume of water it will only have a few minutes at high enough temperature to act like a boil, but the extra time in the water while it cools will help to extract some more hoppy goodness out.
It's just a quick and simple way to get that lovely aroma into your beer with more some flavor too.
Get 3 barry's teabags, put one in a cup of cold water, one in a cup of water of the boil, and boil one. You'll see and taste the difference. Similar to hops.

Steeping for25g of cascade for 30 minutes will not do the same as boiling it for 30 minutes.
A 30 minute boil would give a middle-ground of flavor/bitterness but you'd have mostly boiled the aroma out. (where the blue and red lines intersect)
A 30 minute steep would give more of a middleground between flavor and aroma with very little bitterness (somewhere around where the blue and green lines intersect I'd imagine), probably somewhere around the equivelant of a 10 minute boil.
But it really depends on the amount of water and what it's in, as more water/insulation will hold the temperature longer.

Boiling hops in water will extract more bittering than boiling in wort, but for flavor and aroma i dont think it matters much either way.
Eg according to Beersmith, 10g centennial at 10%AA boiled for 60 mins in 23l water gives 17.2 IBU, but in the same amount of water, hops and time with an added 2kg DME it gives 10.4IBU
If you wanted to get the best utilization from your hops, start with water or thin wort at 60 minutes then add your fermentables towards the end (maybe the last 20 minutes or so)
Another benefit of this is that you won't darken the malt extract as much if if it's only boiling for a short time.
But don't add your kit can to the boil, or you'll wreck the bittering/flavor/aroma balance that's intentionally designed into it by smarter people than you or me.

[BrewCity]

Boiling causes the alpha acids in the hops to isomerize. Isomerized alpha acids are where your bitterness comes from. If you don't get up to boiling temps, but just steep at low temps, your alpha acids don't isomerize, which is why you don't get the bitterness. Boiling for longer means more 'utilization', which is just a fancy way of saying you converted all available alpha acids to iso-alpha acids.  If you steep at low temps (under 80 degrees C) you are still getting the oils and resins off the hops which give a nice taste and aroma, but you aren't going to isomerize the alpha acids so it won't really increase your bitterness.

[Will_D]

Don't forget the pH effect (exactly what this is I'm not sure :)

Mash is typically at pH5.2 (acid)

Water is typically 7 or above (alkaline)

I am sure this will effect the hop extraction chemistry

[Greg2013]

So if like me you don't like a lot of hop bitterness but prefer flavour and aroma you should add late additions or even after flame out for a 20 minute steep ?

[DEMPSEY]

Grassiness can be an issue with late hopping so freshness and low cohumulone levels of the hops+softened water (especially the carbonate/bicarbonate value), and original gravities in excess of 1.055 S.G. are better. Perhaps a lower gravity beer would show signs of 'grassiness' or 'green leaf' aromas/flavors and astringency with severe late hopping, as the malt profile would not be able to offer any significant balancing or smoothing help.

[LordEoin]

Getting complicated enough for you yet Eoghan? 

[delzep]

Boiling causes the alpha acids in the hops to isomerize. Isomerized alpha acids are where your bitterness comes from. If you don't get up to boiling temps, but just steep at low temps, your alpha acids don't isomerize, which is why you don't get the bitterness. Boiling for longer means more 'utilization', which is just a fancy way of saying you converted all available alpha acids to iso-alpha acids.  If you steep at low temps (under 80 degrees C) you are still getting the oils and resins off the hops which give a nice taste and aroma, but you aren't going to isomerize the alpha acids so it won't really increase your bitterness.

How long does it take to boil the hops so that maximum bitterness can be extracted (or does it depend on the hop?)

[delzep]

60 mins. You're getting so little beyond that that it's not worth it. The actual answer is probably 6 hours or something.

Dogfish 120 must be doing something wrong so....

[delzep]

90 is close enough

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.ie/2010/06/lets-brew-wednesday-fullers-obe.html