Brupak All Grain Bavarian Weiss possibly going south...?

[dn218]

Hi Folks, tried an all grain kit from Brupak - Bavarian Weiss at the weekend. BIAB method. (1st time...!!)
Had some bubble action yesterday but it seems to have died down today, no bubbles or Kruezen.

So I mixed up Mauibrew yeast in starter - boiled up some DME light, cooled and pitched the yeast during initial mash time.
Kept it moving until pitch time after boiling and cooling the wort. Thing is it took ages to get the main batch  down from 28 to ~20deg so I pitched a couple of hours later. Would it have settled beyond the aeration given when I transferred to FV?
Should I just shake up FV again?
Should I re-pitch with some more yeast? (Maybe follow the website instructions this time to just use warm water to activate yeast, instead of trying to get all fancy....)

Any ideas/advice?
Cheers

[Qs]

I'd shake the shit out of it and give it another couple of days. If there's still no action repitch.

You shouldn't use DME for your rehdryated yeast though. Maybe you read the online How To Brew which suggests it but the dry yeast companies said don't and now HTB has been amended. Just rehydrate in future.

What temp is it at now?

[irish_goat]

You'd be better gently stirring with a sanitised spoon rather than shaking it up to minimise oxygenation.

[beerfly]

Give it another day it's not that unusual not to see any activity in the first 48hrs. First stage of yeast growth is using the available oxygen to reproduce. When it's all gone they start producing co2 and you see activity. The more healthy yeast in the packet the quicker it is.

[dn218]

Thanks for the tips, I'll give it another day if nothing I'll try the agitation and see if it takes. Looks like I killed a good yeast though...! ...You live & learn...

[Qs]

You'd be better gently stirring with a sanitised spoon rather than shaking it up to minimise oxygenation.

Would oxygenation be an issue yet? If it hasn't started fermenting really wouldn't you just be aerating it more? If it has started fermenting wouldn't the FV be full of CO2?

I shook my carboy up like mad last week because my fermentation was taking its time, hope I didn't oxygenate it.

[DEMPSEY]

Just a question on what temp you mashed at. If you were too high then you may have too much dextrins and not enough maltose for fermenting so the yeast have nothing to chew on

[beerfly]

adding more oxygen would delay the ferment. it is sometimes done very strong beers to make sure you have enough yeast growth
OG could be a factor too, dry yeast will take a bit longer to hydrate in a sugar solution then in water

[Garry]

I was reading Graham Wheeler's "British Real Ale" recently. He encourages giving the beer a good stir 2 or 3 days into fermentation to re-aerate the wort. He reckons if you are NOT using pure O₂ then the yeast will have used up all the available oxygen at this stage and needs more. You won't oxidise the beer because the yeast will use up the oxygen. I haven't tried it though.

@dn218, I used this kit as my first BIAB too. The bag I used was too small though, and I didn't get all the extract out of the grain. The beer ended up being 2.5% instead of 5% 

[beerfly]

yea you are probably safe from oxidation up until the point you get to your finishing gravity but yeast behave differently with oxygen and will produce different flavours so dont go overboard.  there is no quick answer;  a quick fermentation is a comination of yeast numbers, yeast health, oxygen levels, nutrients available, tempertaure and probably one or two other things im forgetting

[Qs]

Rocking the FV wouldn't give you too much oxygen though would it? I've Jamil Z or Johm Palmer saying people have over aerated but he was talking about adding loads and loads of pure oxygen.

[beerfly]

no. you cant shake that much oxygen into it.  but thats usually when you fill the FV.  shaking at a later date could have adverse affects

[dn218]

Thanks everybody, still no life this evening in the FV so contemplating Irish_goats suggestion of sanitised spoon.

Thanks for the affinity message too Garry,  for a first AG kit it's sparse on info isn't it? Gives one of 4 fermentation options  then says check the label for which one to use.....guess what, label says f-all!

Mash was on the high temp side Dempsey, started at 77deg and it stayed ~70-67 by the end. I got woeful efficiency too, tried to mash in at 26 litres over flowed the pot and had to take nearly a litre away when grain went in. So I am left with 18litres in the FV now and dead as a do-do. OG is fairly high too 1045...

This'll be one to tell the kids about.....

[Will_D]

Mash was on the high temp side Dempsey, started at 77deg and it stayed ~70-67 by the end. I got woeful efficiency too, tried to mash in at 26 litres over flowed the pot and had to take nearly a litre away when grain went in.

It sounds like you have a heavy, starch, rich wort with every few fermetable sugars. Do you know about the Iodine test (se below)

I would get some alpha-amylase from the LHBS and pictch in a goodly amount. This MAY just cleave the long chain poly-saccs that your high temp mash didn't!

[Iodine test]
Buy a small bottle of "tincture of Iodine" from the local Pharmacy. This a brown liquid, and it is VERY sensitive to starch (aka: unconverted malts and stuff), if there is starch the liquid turns blue. Put a drop on a cut spud and you will see a blue dot. So you test the mash after say 60 mins to see if it turns blue or stays brown.

BTW: It is a powerful antiseptic (thats why they sell it) but use it on a cut or graze and it stings like fekk (but its a good sting)

[dn218]

Thanks Will_D I have seen the iodine test used (and I'm old enough to remember it used on cuts and grazes, started the tears off again when we were kids almost as bad as getting the graze in the 1st place!) I'll look into the alpha amylase see if it is at all salvageable.