Lager question/confusion

[Gugs44]

Hi lads,

I'm going doing an AG American lager this evening and the yeast is to ferment between 9-15c, that's not a problem as I can leave it out in the shed but I managed to get a big fridge that can take my FV, do I transfer the beer to the fridge after the initial fermenting is over, it's Safalager 23 I think, I got the fridge for this reason coz also doing a pilsner and want em done and clear for Xmas....I have a good few stouts and Ales done but this is my first time lagering

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

[DEMPSEY]

After fermentation is done raise the temp for 24 hours for a diacetyl rest. Diacetyl has a buttery  taste thats nice in a rich red but not so in a Lager. After the rest lower the temp 2 C a day back to the colder temperature and Lager it  for 6 weeks or more as  cold as you can get it. 

[Gugs44]

Thanks a million Dempsey,

So basically leave in shed for initial fermentation, say a week r so, then bring indoor for 24 hours and then I can put in fridge adjusting the temp down everyday until at its coldest and leave for 6 weeks?? 

When bottling then do I bring it back up after batch priming to allow for carbonation??

Sorry now bout all the questions

[Gugs44]

Reading John Palmers how to brew it states that by lagering this strain of yeast can actually have an adverse reaction to the final product, I rang HBC who I bought this recipe from and they said no need for lagering, yet on their instructions it states to lager for at least 4 weeks

[Dr Jacoby]

After the rest lower the temp 2 C a day back to the colder temperature and Lager it  for 6 weeks or more as  cold as you can get it.

There seems to be some dispute about this. Some people say the gradual lowering of the temp helps to keep the yeast active so they can clean up the beer during lagering. Others say you are better off letting the beer ferment completely and then cold crashing. I've tried both methods and I can't say I've noticed a big difference. In fact, I think it may be safer to cold crash and then apply some artificial pressure to keep your vessel sealed tight to avoid oxygenation.

When I tried lowering the temp gradually I was expecting some build up of pressure through the activity of the yeast but this didn't happen (I lowered the temp 1C a day and treated the yeast very well throughout the process). Maybe the pressure was building but too slowly to create a tight seal in my corny. I suppose you could try to give the beer a blast of Co2 from a gas bottle and then control the pressure after that with a bleeder valve. Any hissing would be a sign that the yeast was still active. But I'm not sure it's worth the hassle. 

I reckon most of the work in the lagering phase is shouldered by the cold temps rather than the slowly acting yeast. If this is true there is probably no pointing wasting all that time lowering the temp gradually.

[brenmurph]

If u cold crash from 20c to 2c the yeast will produce protease and this will affect head retention. Lager needs time and the slow drop in temp is not to shock the yeast but to allow them keep workin on fermentation byproducts without stressing them with cold crash.

[Gugs44]

Thanks for all the advice, it started to rain as I was chilling my wort so pitched slightly higher at 15c but I now have it in the fridge at a cold setting over night to bring down temp, I will set it at 9c at 7am and leave for 3 weeks, gonna bring it in them to raise it up to around 20c and batch prime n bottle, gonna leave bottles in hot press to carbonate then back in fridge to clear up hopefully, as I'm not a lager drinker I don't think I'd do this again but the old man was adamant on getting him a brew for Xmas

Fingers crossed and thanks again

[DEMPSEY]

Don't panic if the yeast takes a while to kick in as you are cooling it so not thus not helping it to get established. 

[Gugs44]

Fridge is set to 10c approx, I don't have an stc1000 but just an ordinary thermometer inside and that seems to be at a stable 10...came home from work just now and it's bubbling away every 3 seconds, nothing too vigorous but happy to see action

[bigvalen]

I feel like an eejit...if you lager for six weeks ... Does that mean you can't bottle condition afterwards ? Does it knock the yeast out ?

[Greg2013]

Quick question hijack style. What's the absolute coldest you can ferment a lager at be it kit or all grain ? I cleared out a small fridge the other day and if i put it at lowest setting it's holding around 7-8 celsius. I don't currently have a spare stc 1000 and i was wondering is it possible to ferment a lager at this low a temp ?

[nigel_c]

Does that mean you can't bottle condition afterwards ? Does it knock the yeast out ?

It will carbonate, it will just take loner. Even after lagering there is enough yeast in the beer to prime the bottles.

Quick question hijack style. What's the absolute coldest you can ferment a lager at be it kit or all grain ? I cleared out a small fridge the other day and if i put it at lowest setting it's holding around 7-8 celsius. I don't currently have a spare stc 1000 and i was wondering is it possible to ferment a lager at this low a temp ?

Fermentation will cause the beer to heat up a degree or 2. A  massive starter or about 3 packets of dry yest should do it. SLOW but should ferment out.

[DEMPSEY]

I feel like an eejit...if you lager for six weeks ... Does that mean you can't bottle condition afterwards ? Does it knock the yeast out ?

No because there is always some yeast left unless you heat up the beer to above 60C to kill/pasteurize it.

Quick question hijack style. What's the absolute coldest you can ferment a lager at be it kit or all grain ? I cleared out a small fridge the other day and if i put it at lowest setting it's holding around 7-8 celsius. I don't currently have a spare stc 1000 and i was wondering is it possible to ferment a lager at this low a temp ?

It all depends on the strain but I think 8C is probably it.

[DEMPSEY]

Snap Nigel

[Greg2013]

Does that mean you can't bottle condition afterwards ? Does it knock the yeast out ?

It will carbonate, it will just take loner. Even after lagering there is enough yeast in the beer to prime the bottles.

Quick question hijack style. What's the absolute coldest you can ferment a lager at be it kit or all grain ? I cleared out a small fridge the other day and if i put it at lowest setting it's holding around 7-8 celsius. I don't currently have a spare stc 1000 and i was wondering is it possible to ferment a lager at this low a temp ?

Fermentation will cause the beer to heat up a degree or 2. A  massive starter or about 3 packets of dry yest should do it. SLOW but should ferment out.

Great news Nigel thanks. Being that the fridge is that low a temp can i just leave the lager in primary once fermentation is done,raise temp for 24 hours for diacetyl rest then back into fridge  and just start dropping the temp gradually,leave it like that for say 6 weeks then into a keg and condition at 2 celsius ? 

Btw Guggs sorry for the hijack.