Beer & Health the myths and misconceptions

[brenmurph]

@ lordeoin

Carefull please, it has been taken out of context completely, there are two sides to the alcohol story, the side that gives beer / alcohol bad press and plenty of it and the truth.
This thread is to get a feel for myths and misconceptions and opinions and knowledge without firing abuse at anyone. The thread didnt start with alcohol abuse it started with us discussing how beer is healthy in moderation and no it seems that beer is causing everybodys ills mental and physical.
In addition this is our homebrew forum where we can all say what we like and discuss whjat we like, I am not a registered nutritionist, there is no such thing as one, I am not giving professional professional advice, just like everyong else on the forum I am discussing aspects of beer and brewing which is what this forum is about and having debate and banter with others.
And yes your references are biased, non primary and poor quality from the web in many cases. Im working all day so ye all can continue as ye see fit.

[UpsidedownA (Andrew)]

@ LordEoin, in particular, but really also interested parties, here's a copy of the literature review essay I did on the health and nutrition related aspects of moderate beer consumption as part of my MSc course work.

It has a lot of sources for the claims Brenmurph and I were making. The U-shaped curve relating alcohol consumption to total mortality and CRD in particular has been replicated by study after study. I only reference about five such studies in this document, but it seems incontrovertible.

[UpsidedownA (Andrew)]

500ml of 4.3% beer is 21.5gram alc

500ml of 5% beer is 25 gram alc

its a percentage

Would it not be a proportion of the alcohol by weight? So a 500ml bottle of 5.0% abv would work out about 20 grams alcohol (abw = approx. 0.8 x abv)?

WE SHOULD DEFINE THIS if we can in a simple way, are we talking about  a kg of wort of 1060 gravity weighing 1.060kg?  Isnt a ml of water the same as a gram of water and the density of wort or finished beer is slightly heavier if it finishes at 1.010 and therefore causes difficulty in calculating alcohol content? Is weight of finished beer not very similar to water + / - 5% because not many beers finish at 1.020?
someone please clarify in laymans terms for everyones benefit.

Dunkel was spot on. The density of ethanol is 0.789kg/m3 or g/ml. So 10ml of alcohol weighs only 7.89g and 10g of alcohol takes up 12.67ml.
Ever noticed that alcohol unit information on UK and Irish bottles is different? That is because a UK unit is 10ml of alcohol and an Irish unit is 10g. 500ml of 5% beer is 25ml alcohol or 2.5 UK units but only 2 Irish units.
42g/day would be 53.2ml, that is, 4 Irish units or 5.3 UK units.

I don't really follow what you're trying to say about wort and beer gravity. A litre of wort of specific gravity 1.060 weighs approximately 1.06kg. This is merely approximate because the density of H2O is actually 0.9982, not 1.000. Specific gravity is the ratio of the density of the substance in g/ml or kg/m3 divided by the density of water. So the SG of water is by definition 1.000. This means the density of wort of SG 1.06 is actually 1.058, so a litre of that wort will weigh 1.058kg.
As you say when wort sugars are converted to alcohol this affects the measurement of alcohol concentration. The official procedure for determining ethanol concentration is distillation. The method of subtracting final gravity from original gravity is an empirical correlation and is only approximate. The formula is (OG minus FG) multiplied by a factor that depends on the size of the gravity drop. There is a table of factors in section 30.3 of this HMRC document. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcustoms.hmrc.gov.uk%2FchannelsPortalWebApp%2FdownloadFile%3FcontentID%3DHMCE_CL_000232&ei=mvtDUsvDLISt7QbX4YDYAg&usg=AFQjCNHBjX2dYyxdcJiQDDYMXXDOUQosMg&sig2=r8H-4jcS_U2id2VRAd3gNg&bvm=bv.53217764,d.ZGU

[LordEoin]

@ andrew - Fantastic. Finally something constructive (your essay), thank you Andrew.
You'll notice that i did not dispute the U curve at any point in my post
Handy definition of moderate beer consumption in there
(10‐12g/day for women and 20‐24g/day for men)
That pretty much lines up with the one pint of 5-6% ABV beer per day limit for men.

@ brenmurph -
I don't think I fired any abuse.

Of course my references are biased, so are yours. They may be pulled from the web, but at least they're mostly from reputable organisations. Many of the sources linked also provide links to the actual studies and reports.
Andrew's essay supports many of the references I provided (i guess there's some value in my references that 'are biased, non primary and poor quality from the web')

Just like everyong else on the forum I am discussing aspects of beer and brewing which is what this forum is about and having debate and banter with others.

I stand behind my point (although slightly modified)
Throwaway nonchalant comments like 'Moderate drinking could be 5 litres a day, who knows', claims that unfiltered ale is 'a superfood' and advice like 'introduce kids early' aren't just outrageous but downright misleading and dangerous, especially coming from a certified nutritionist.

[DEMPSEY]

As regards how to introduce alcohol to children I had a hearty debate along time ago with my extended family about this. I allowed my 2 children to taste any drink I had and when my son was 11 he became aware of the image of stout. So I told him that he and I could have draft cans of stout and watch a film. As I expected he poured his can and drank the first 2 mouthfuls and as the bitter flavor took hold he reverted to the box of chocolates. I never teased him and let it pass but I know he formed his views and was able to conclude what he liked.  I believe why we have a bad habit at a young age to drink is because we tell children that this is only for when you are an adult and children aspire to be adult.

[irish_goat]

Little brother is turning 18 soon enough, looking forward to educating him on the ways of craft beer.

[Dodge]

What a great debate! Personally I take alot of what so called experts say with a pinch of salt. Today something's are bad, tomorrow there ok. You never know with the change of times.

I think moderation is the best. For me I'll always have a few drinks. I know when I near my limit and I'd hate to get to a point where I could get addicted( knowing that I have about 100l in my fridges )

If people could enjoy beer with out thinking for the need to get pissed then there would be less issues surrounding alcohol.

I think and practice by teaching my kids about the beers I brew and of the effects of too much consumption. I'd rather have my eldest have too much at home than too much were I can't see her. Needless she as very little. Since to restrict young ones on anything only breeds desire.

Other things in life are more threatening as well. It's just about balance. I don't give a s@€t what the WHO say!
homebrew is better

[LordEoin]

homebrew is better

I'll drink to that! 

[Eoin]

I don't give a s@€t what the WHO say!

But, but, they had a few good songs.
Sent using a complex system of semaphore and ninjas.

[Dunkel]

Don't Bayern Munich use Paulaner non alcoholic as an isotonic sports drink?

Just reading some material sent to me by brenmurph, and loved this quote -

"If malt is the soul of the beer then hops are the spice," says Professor Charles Bamforth, Professor of Brewing Sciences at the University of California. "The hop is an ancient plant, said to aid digestion, ease constipation, overcome premature ejaculation and soothe anxieties."

That's me sorted then 

[irish_goat]

Don't Bayern Munich use Paulaner non alcoholic as an isotonic sports drink?

Yep, Erdinger Ireland give out their non-alcoholic stuff at the end of races they sponsor as well.