Advice on a bottom drain, false bottom & using a pump

[Shanna]

Hi there,

Tried out using a chugged pump with my mash tun last weekend and after about two minutes of running it started to run dry. I was pumping through 1/2".silicon tubing up through a stainless steel coil and out again. I have run a small 12v dc pump over 2 years without any problems. I have tried restricting the outflow of the chugger but it still ended up running dry. The bottom drain in my mash tun is connected via a pair of pipe fittings connected together to turn 180 degrees. One end of the pipe fittings is screwed on to a nipple through the bottom of mash tun and the other end is put through the bottom of the converted candle tray I use as a false bottom. Under normal operation it works fine but I suspect the 180 degree turn is causing the flow of liquid to be slowed down too much. A couple of things also is that my existing tube connections are plastic and I suspect the bore of them is too narrow & this is contributing to the problem.

My pump was laying on the floor next to the mash tun and I am wondering if I should move my mash tun higher up to allow the pump be fed by gravity? Would the sole pump I have be strong enough to pump through the stainless steel coil I wonder. The difficult part about this is the only effective way to test is to do so on a container full of grain as when I tested the pump & herms with water it flew.

I was also thinking for some time of switching to camlock fittings with a view to having larger bore connections in to the piping. What other practical suggestions would people recommend to solve this problem?

If I can reliably crack this problem I will be able to make a switch to using the herms/pid controller setup that I have built.

Shanna

[Leann ull]

Pics, especially of the bores, you need to go 3:1 on liquid as the chugger pumps up to 19l/min typically 10-14 in herms
You also need a reservoir with headspace so in a standard MT you want minimal gap not so on Herms
I seem to remember there was something unique in your draw for the dip tube
What flow rate are you getting?

[CARA]

The addition of an underback between your pump and mash tun would also solve the problem

[Shanna]

Pics, especially of the bores, you need to go 3:1 on liquid as the chugger pumps up to 19l/min typically 10-14 in herms
You also need a reservoir with headspace so in a standard MT you want minimal gap not so on Herms
I seem to remember there was something unique in your draw for the dip tube
What flow rate are you getting?

The unique thing on my dip tube was that it was not actually a tube but two stainless fittings connected to a nipple that was threaded through the bottom of the masth tun. They turn the feed 180 degrees to suck up the liquid from the bottom of the mash tun. Not to sound like a complete numpty but is the 3:1 ratio 3 litres in to the pump to every 1 out? I am using 1/2" inch silicon with the plastic clip on fittings (Gary bought them on a group buy). Will post pictures of the bore later. Safe to say they are less than 1/2".

Shanna

[Shanna]

The addition of an underback between your pump and mash tun would also solve the problem

will consider that if I can't get the mash tun sorted out.

Thanks

Shanna

[Leann ull]

Pics tell a thousand words 
I think I remember it's like a t with 2 1/2 inch 90s off it
They need to be constantly flooded and you can achieve this by raising height of your false bottom with some stainless bolts

 


Sorry but those fittings are not good enough for a chugger perhaps on the out but not on the feed to the pump
Guess which one of these goes on the feed side of the pump and which on the exit!





3:1 liquid ratio check your ratios on beersmith under mash tab click on first step, new window pops up as "mash step", standard non circulating mash is typically 2-2.5 l/kg herms should be 2.5-3 especially with a brute like a chugger and on 16 litres liquid in 5kgs of grain it can recirc every 1.5 -3 mins depending on your bore size

[Shanna]

Hi Ciderhead,

I can see that the bore on the fittings I have are approximately 13mm so its obvious this is part of the problem. Interestingly I always felt that the space in the bottom of my mash tun was too big due to the nipple coming through directly through the bottom of my mash tun. I have always been tempted to screw the fittings on very tightly to reduce the space between the false bottom and the bottom of the mash tun. Will try and do a dummy run over the next few days with the largest bore fitting I have (think I have an 18mm stainless barb somewhere) and also raise the height of the drain fittings. I checked beer smith in the mash settings and its estimating just under 3 litre of water per kilo of grain. I might increase the size of my deadspace by another litre just to be on the safe side.

Pictures of my false bottom and the nipple from the bottom of my mash tun attached.


Shanna

[Leann ull]

Can you take off that bit of copper and try a run?
As a temp fix you can wind silcone tubing directly onto the the threads of half inch chugger in.
Not sure what you have for the tap of the MT but again look at giving full open supply
Also measure your flow l/min and advise

[DEMPSEY]

I switched  my draining system in my Mash Tun to a copper pipe system with slots cut in them to drain from. Had too many sticking problems with the drain plate method but now my chugger can pull enough liquid from the Mash Tun and run it through the HERMS  and return it to the top of the Mash with a steady flow.

[Leann ull]

I've just had a brain fart, your mash tun in bottom centre draining, dump the u bend and just let it drain directly through the hole in the bottom which is what mine does, you refeed back to the grainbed and it performs the filtration with herms?
Unlike the solars chuggers can chomp large grain particles at the start 
(just not hop cones but it was funny as I watched the first few small ones travel towards the pump until a monster stopped it)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEVilNDXd0A

[Shanna]

I've just had a brain fart, your mash tun in bottom centre draining, dump the u bend and just let it drain directly through the hole in the bottom which is what mine does, you refeed back to the grainbed and it performs the filtration with herms?
Unlike the solars chuggers can chomp large grain particles at the start 
(just not hop cones but it was funny as I watched the first few small ones travel towards the pump until a monster stopped it)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEVilNDXd0A

Any hints where you got those SS bolts from? Was thinking might be time to invest in a proper false bottom rather than my current candle tray job. Will also invest in some larger bore fittings and camlocks. Thanks for the advice.

Shanna

[Shanna]

I switched  my draining system in my Mash Tun to a copper pipe system with slots cut in them to drain from. Had too many sticking problems with the drain plate method but now my chugger can pull enough liquid from the Mash Tun and run it through the HERMS  and return it to the top of the Mash with a steady flow.

Interesting I actually started out with a similar system but as it was connected to the bottom drain I had issues with it not draining as well. Might dig the parts out & compare it to false bottom.

Shanna

[Leann ull]

Any hints where you got those SS bolts from? Was thinking might be time to invest in a proper false bottom rather than my current candle tray job. Will also invest in some larger bore fittings and camlocks. Thanks for the advice.

Shanna

I'm sure you could pick em up easily in a hardware store or one of the marine chandlers in Dun Laoghaire?
otherwise parcel motel http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Dome-Nuts-Stainless-Steel-A4-Marine-Grade-316-M3-M4-M5-M6-M8-M10-M12-/261908078850?var=&hash=item3cfaf02102#shpCntId
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/A4-MARINE-GRADE-STAINLESS-LIFTING-EYE-NUTS-BOLTS-M6-M8-M10-M12-M16-M20-FEMALE-/201386017977?var=&hash=item2ee38ac4b9

The one in the pic was mad money from Mr Lard
https://www.brewbuilder.co.uk/custom-cut-false-bottom.html

try your old system before you go mad, slits work best on copper pipe and have them on the bottom so the weight of the grain is on the top

[Shanna]

Any hints where you got those SS bolts from? Was thinking might be time to invest in a proper false bottom rather than my current candle tray job. Will also invest in some larger bore fittings and camlocks. Thanks for the advice.

Shanna

I'm sure you could pick em up easily in a hardware store or one of the marine chandlers in Dun Laoghaire?
otherwise parcel motel http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Dome-Nuts-Stainless-Steel-A4-Marine-Grade-316-M3-M4-M5-M6-M8-M10-M12-/261908078850?var=&hash=item3cfaf02102#shpCntId
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/A4-MARINE-GRADE-STAINLESS-LIFTING-EYE-NUTS-BOLTS-M6-M8-M10-M12-M16-M20-FEMALE-/201386017977?var=&hash=item2ee38ac4b9

The one in the pic was mad money from Mr Lard
https://www.brewbuilder.co.uk/custom-cut-false-bottom.html

try your old system before you go mad, slits work best on copper pipe and have them on the bottom so the weight of the grain is on the top

No fear of me going for that option as your right its mad money. I don't ever remember seeing stainless steel of anything in the average hardware store or builder suppliers. I checked radionics before I posted & they have everything but in boxes of 50 or 100. Might try & get somebody local to fabricate something or else use the spare Ikea candle tray I have with a bunch of pieces of stainless underneath to support it. The bottom of my mash tun is not flat so it makes it a bit awkward to get everything aliinged. Will definitely look at shortening the nipple as that should reduce the gap required between the underside of the false bottom and the entrance to the bottom drain. Going to pinch your idea of using the silicone hose along the rim of the false bottom.

Shanna

[Leann ull]

its beer line, but silicone would work just as well, i think the slits and holes are enough but yeah dump the copper tube to allow as much takeup as possible or completely get rid of that U
To cut beer line in a straight line http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50022