Kinnegar Rustbucket Clone

[Jonnycheech]

I'm going to attempt a Rustbucket clone as I really love this beer. Kinnegar don't give away too much on their website stating it's a balance of rye and barley malt, thanks for the massive help Kinnegar  I've been doing a bit of reading on rye ale malt bills which seem to consist of 10-15% rye and many of the recipes bring in some crystal to balance the dryness from the rye. Rustbucket has a eh, rusty/dark copper colour I suppose, which I presume is coming from a medium-dark crystal.

So I'm thinking the malt bill will be something like:

Pale 80%
Rye 10-15%
Medium/dark crystal 5-10%

What the hops are I'm not too sure about. There's certainly a fair amount in this beer with medium IBUs, 40ish, and a fruity/citrusy aroma profile. I also get some spicy/menthol in the flavour that i think may be coming from the hops, but this might be coming from the rye too? So I'm thinking magnum as an initial bittering hop, maybe cascade and amarillo in generous amounts at 20 and at flameout. I'll probably throw in a few ounces to dry hop too.

The yeast will likely be San Diego Super Yeast, which is essentially Californian ale yeast, as I have some that i can get a starter going with.

I have no experience of brewing with rye so I'm not too sure what it will bring to the party. I would appreciate fellow home brewer's thought's and advice on this potential recipe.

Cheers,

Johnny

[molc]

Rye is very sticky in the mash, so add some rice hulls or similar to help with your sparge. It gives a lovely spicy and grainy flavour to the beer though - brilliant stuff when used well.

[Bubbles]

It's quite a dark beer, so I'd think about using some roasted malt, instead of heaping the crystal in to achieve that colour, which will only make the beer more chewy.

Rye does give you a touch of spiciness, but it could be hops you're tasting too.

[Pheeel]

I attended the last Kinnegar Homebrew Academy and we brewed a Rye Session Ale so I'm trying to remember back a few months....

I'm pretty sure the hops were close to Rustbucket. From what I can remember they used Columbus early, Simcoe late, another (sorry don't remember which but it was an American and it was High Alpha) in the last 5 minutes and Mandarina Bavaria + Hallertau Blanc in the Whirlpool. The last two seem to be their go to aroma hops

Re the grains I do remember them using Irish Stout malt (not exactly sure why), obviously Rye and then I think it was Cara Malt and low crystal. I'd say your percentages are about right

[helmet]

Dying to see how this turns out, it's one of my favourites.

[paul isherebrewing]

hi My version of it is 4.250kg pale malt, 1.1kg rye malt , 120g roasted rye malt 27 litre batch, 25g amarillo and 16g citra at 60min, 60g amarillo and 18g citra at flame out 35g amarillo and citra for dry hop, its very close too it but something is missing just at the back of the taste, but close enough. see in the picture mine on the right in the kinnegar glass and kinnegar on the left.

[Jonnycheech]

Rye is very sticky in the mash, so add some rice hulls or similar to help with your sparge. It gives a lovely spicy and grainy flavour to the beer though - brilliant stuff when used well.

Cheers, good to know. I don't have any hulls to hand and I'm brewing this tomorrow so will have to go ahead without them. I'm hoping to be ok though as the rye percentage is quite low.

[irish_goat]

If you're going to the RDS you could bring your recipe along and get Rick to critique it. He's normally pretty decent at talking about his process and recipes.

[Jonnycheech]

From what I can remember they used Columbus early, Simcoe late, another (sorry don't remember which but it was an American and it was High Alpha) in the last 5 minutes and Mandarina Bavaria + Hallertau Blanc in the Whirlpool. The last two seem to be their go to aroma hops
Re the grains I do remember them using Irish Stout malt (not exactly sure why), obviously Rye and then I think it was Cara Malt and low crystal. I'd say your percentages are about right

Interesting. I didn't expect them to be using Manadarina and Hallertau Blanc. I don't have Columbus either. Good to know for V 2.0. Thanks!

I'm brewing tomorrow so I guess I'll just have to go with what I have the moment. What I do have is Chinook, Simcoe, Cascade, Amarillo and Mosaic.

[Jonnycheech]

If you're going to the RDS you could bring your recipe along and get Rick to critique it. He's normally pretty decent at talking about his process and recipes.

First year I won't be going actually. Pesky work and a wedding in London to attend. Bah!

[Jonnycheech]

Ok so I have the base of a recipe that I'm happy with. I don't have the hops that were suggested may be involved but I have hops that I think will substitute well for them. So this won't be a twin, but hopefully Rustbucket's sibling of some sort.

Malt bill: Pale, Rye, Crystal 60 and Carafa Special III. The rye will be 12.5% of the bill. I will add a small amount of Special III as I have some in stock and it should bring some of that darker copper colour.

Hops: Small amount of FWH Chinook to bitter initially, generous amounts of Simcoe and Cascade late in the boil and a 20 min hopstand with these too. Then I'll dry hop with Amarillo and Mosaic for 4 days after fermentation is complete. My IBUs will be  in the 40-50 range.

Looking forward to drinking this in about three weeks. Thanks to all for the feedback!

[kegging]

Any update on this?

[Jonnycheech]

Any update on this?

Just had the first pint tonight after only being kegged a week so it's not at it's best yet. First impressions are that it's decent and nice to drink, but it's not Rustbucket. I have a few thoughts as to why this may be and what I can change for V2.0.

Firstly I messed up the hop additions. I had a brain fart and for some reason I added all the 5 min hop additions at 20 minutes, so the beer turned out more bitter than I was hoping. it's not overly bitter but it's just a little too much for Rustbucket. I was planning for about 40 IBUs initially but it ended up at 70 IBUs. I now think 40 IBUs may be a bit low after tasting this beer, next time I'll be aiming for 50-55 IBUs.

Secondly the carafa special III was wrong, the beer is far too dark. It's more like dark brown bucket than rust bucket. I thought it would be a bit more rubyish as Beersmith was predicting a nice reddish pint, but unfortunately not. I may have possibly created a new style actually, Rye Black IPA 

Overall I think the malt bill percentages were correct just need to substitute the special III for some type of cara next time. Need to pick Pheeel's brain on this one!

The hops, although they're not what's in Rustbucket, they work well. I think next time I'll try the hops that Pheeel suggested.

So in conclusion it's not Rustbucket but I think I've learnt a lot from this attempt and hopefully can make a decent stab at it next time.

[Jonnycheech]

I attended the last Kinnegar Homebrew Academy and we brewed a Rye Session Ale so I'm trying to remember back a few months....

Re the grains I do remember them using Irish Stout malt (not exactly sure why), obviously Rye and then I think it was Cara Malt and low crystal. I'd say your percentages are about right

Do you remember what type of cara malt it was?

[Pheeel]

No, sorry. Nothings ringing a bell TBH 😕