Is all Macro Beer Really that bad?

[Bazza]

Anybody else have this

Santa is going to be delivering the updated 200 recipe version for XMas.

Shanna

Yes, but I only ever brew the Irish Harp recipe 

-Barry

[darren996]

Anybody else have this

Have the updated version on kindle. Did a saison DuPont clone from it, turned out fairly well.

[Qs]

I have the updated version too but I've never brewed anything from it. I use it more as a way of getting ideas and the general area I need to be in for a style rather than for trying to straight up clone stuff.

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Putting a cap on the bottle extends the shelf life,  but it doesn't make it a preservative, the reduced iso hops protect the beer from UV light damage in the same way that brown glass prevents UV damage, they dont impact on shelf life.

Of course they impact on shelf life- do you think a beer made with natural hops and packaged in green glass would last as long as Heineken?

Sorry Andrew but I still disagree , some brewers don't consider light struck a problem, the Mexicans for example and even Stella Artois is quite skunky. Tests have shown that consumers don't treat it in the same way as some brewers and many are happy with the taste.
Hops have been used as a preservative since the middle ages, but Pheeel's comment was " Heino doesn't stay fresh in a green bottle without preservatives. Corona in bottles makes me shudder just thinking about it"
This is suggesting that a preservative like sulphites have been added to the beer. Heineken is brewed with reduced Iso hops, the hint is in the name reduced iso alpha acids, iso acids which are light sensitive are removed from the original hop material, the process also removes pesticides which are present in a lot of raw hop material. So if anything they are adding less material/preservatives than traditional hopping methods not more.
Shelf life is about collidal stability, heat  damage and dissolved O2 levels, since many breweries are happy with light struck beer from day one, it is not an issue regarding shelf life.
Corona use traditional hops so I don't know what his issue is with it.
Many "Craft" style beers are packaged in clear bottles particularly from the UK, the issue with these is that the beer is highly polished usually with pvpp, a type of nylon beads are added to the beer and removed after the pvpps have attached themselves to the polyphenol compounds within the beer. Some remove the PVPP with kieselgur which creates an ungodly mess and is dumped as landfill. I'd be more concerned about this than iso reduced hops to be honest.

PS CH had alluded to this earlier in the thread

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Bubbles]

I have yet to read a slating review of any Irish Beers from any Irish Bloggers about any Irish Beer.

The Beer Nut does all the time. Here's one from 2 weeks ago. https://thebeernut.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/they-dont-know-jack.html

Was just about to post re the beernut, but you beat me to it. He never beats around the bush with his descriptions regardless of where the beer is from.

Best beer blog, by a country mile. Very objective, not to mention incredibly well-written. A lot of beer blogs give me the impression that they're only doing it to kiss arse and get some freebies.

[Bubbles]

I'm not going to say I won't buy their beer again, but it leaves a bad taste in your mouth... pun intended.

Well, why not? I don't believe anyone can criticise you for simply stating facts. Their beer was shit and they didn't have the courtesy to respond to your well meaning feedback.

[Leann ull]

I'm in a beer desert in Malahide

[pob]

What's that? Some barrelled aged NCB Porter?

[mr hoppy]

It shouldn't be in the public area as there is the potential of a defamation issue for the NHC

If reviewing a product and saying it's shit (in your opinion) was defamation I don't think Amazon or TripAdvisor would have much of a business model.

Defamation is more like saying the craft brewer X dry hops its new IPA with rat droppings without any factual evidence.

[Leann ull]

Fair point though with Amazon as a vendor you agree to having your products reviewed. Trip advisor review comments before they are published and regularly pull them if there are complaints by service providers. Amazon also regularly edit comments.

Defamation law is quite clear now and if the NHC openly allowed a damming review which impacted on a persons company or character they would have a case against the forum first and foremost and then the individual.
In fairness to our mods they let us get away with murder by comparison to other forums, maybe it's because relative to others we are still very small.
In a private members area the rules are different.

The reviews are there to allow our members to learn how to not brew shit beer or spend their money on poor quality products, we are not a public consumer beer champion, even though we all do it, there are other organisations in the country performing that role.

[Eoin]

Putting a cap on the bottle extends the shelf life,  but it doesn't make it a preservative, the reduced iso hops protect the beer from UV light damage in the same way that brown glass prevents UV damage, they dont impact on shelf life.

Of course they impact on shelf life- do you think a beer made with natural hops and packaged in green glass would last as long as Heineken?

Sorry Andrew but I still disagree , some brewers don't consider light struck a problem, the Mexicans for example and even Stella Artois is quite skunky. Tests have shown that consumers don't treat it in the same way as some brewers and many are happy with the taste.
Hops have been used as a preservative since the middle ages, but Pheeel's comment was " Heino doesn't stay fresh in a green bottle without preservatives. Corona in bottles makes me shudder just thinking about it"
This is suggesting that a preservative like sulphites have been added to the beer. Heineken is brewed with reduced Iso hops, the hint is in the name reduced iso alpha acids, iso acids which are light sensitive are removed from the original hop material, the process also removes pesticides which are present in a lot of raw hop material. So if anything they are adding less material/preservatives than traditional hopping methods not more.
Shelf life is about collidal stability, heat  damage and dissolved O2 levels, since many breweries are happy with light struck beer from day one, it is not an issue regarding shelf life.
Corona use traditional hops so I don't know what his issue is with it.
Many "Craft" style beers are packaged in clear bottles particularly from the UK, the issue with these is that the beer is highly polished usually with pvpp, a type of nylon beads are added to the beer and removed after the pvpps have attached themselves to the polyphenol compounds within the beer. Some remove the PVPP with kieselgur which creates an ungodly mess and is dumped as landfill. I'd be more concerned about this than iso reduced hops to be honest.

PS CH had alluded to this earlier in the thread

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

The skunking is the primary reason that I would buy a can of Stella over a bottle any day of the week, that said, whilst the beer is not as good from a bottle, the level of skunking is acceptable. It even comes from the boxes, so those bottles only get exposed to artificial lights in the factory, so skunking happens pretty easily it would seem.

[Qs]

I don't know no think any one could sue us for a bad review of their beer. There may be other reasons not to bash Irish micros though, even the shitty ones.

[mr hoppy]

Defamation law is quite clear now and if the NHC openly allowed a damming review which impacted on a persons company or character they would have a case against the forum first and foremost and then the individual.

Not saying the forum should or shouldn't have beer reviews, or that the mods don't have a prerogative to be as conservative as they want in policing the forum but this is a gross oversimplification. The defamation act 2009 allows for a number of defences including honest opinion.

[irish_goat]

I don't think we've to worry too much about being sued. Irish micros have better things to spend their money on and I think if any review particularly annoyed a micro they'd just ask us to remove the review.

NHC has feck all money to sue for as well anyway, sure it's all tied up in the Cayman Islands. 

[mr hoppy]

I was thinking that as well, and in fairness I think CH's idea for making the reviews about sensory analysis is the right one there's plenty of straight reviews out there.