Group buys vs members

[DEMPSEY]

The strength of any club like this one is in the participation of members who engage with the threads,help answer new and rookie members questions,and generally advance the knowledge of the art of brewing to help all.
(P.S. I told Obama to say,"yes we can".any speech writing needed,I'm cheap. ).

[ColMack]

Im all for charging membership.
Lets face it most of us on here have paid Beoir membership and received frankly nothing.

I seem to remember getting some nice corny kegs through my association with Beoir.  And didn't it bring us all together here?   

€10 sounds fair to me.  But I do want a membership card for that.

[Padraic]

I think €10 is a fair price to pay into the club, we're not all loaded like John

But back on topic, my feeling is that group buys should be available to members first and then made available to non members if we can't make up the numbers!

I support a mark up for non members.

I'm also in agreement with irish goats point on the fairness of the group buys, it would be great if there was a way of getting the info out to members, maybe a mailing list people could subscribe to or something? most people see there email quite often! Or possibly a text messaging system, but that's probably not cheap. And of course both would require a fair amount of admin!

[Rats]

Why not charge a % on top of each group buy. That way you pay as you save, and the club is guaranteed a % of every group buy.

A tenner will do the trick. 
Maybe a % discount for the one that organize the group buy if following "loftybush" suggestion.

[JimmyM]

Im all for charging membership.
Lets face it most of us on here have paid Beoir membership and received frankly nothing.

I seem to remember getting some nice corny kegs through my association with Beoir.  And didn't it bring us all together here?   

€10 sounds fair to me.  But I do want a membership card for that.

Exactly, it did bring us together and had nothing to do with Beoir, or at least it had nothing to do with the tenner you paid to Beoir - as there were plenty of people on it that werent paid members.
But anyway.... we digress.

[JimmyM]

Re group buy lists and fairness: fairest way is like selling tickets for a concert.
Say they will go on sale on such a date and time. Send mails out with plenty of notice.

Then on the date and time the thread is created, after that - first come first served. If you give enough notice and get it out accross as many mediums as possible no one can complain about not seeing it. Its an online community, people couldnt expect to be contacted via a non-online medium.

[newToBrew]

these are good ideas choices I guess - and has been said if you only participated in one or two Group buys through out the year -
you have made your money back -

but being a member is more than just being a group buy participant

there is an identity there and you can have a warm fuzzy feeling of being a HomeBrew Brother ( or Sister !) 

and what about all those card carying discounts tube mentioned in another post for DIY Shops Pubs and Resturaunts :-)

seriously though the focus is not on group buys is it ?

I mean its the National HomeBrew club/association of Clubs - whatever
not the National Group Buy Club

But dealin with the Group Buys Options

1. Membership Only Group Buys option 

2. Public Group buys with a members "discount" (higher margin for non members )
each kinda have their own issues I guess:

1. Membership Only
the first Come first served problem mentioned above, kinda unfair i suppose if you are a paid up member  ?(or is it fairer than in option2)?
- but hey - this is a hobby site being run by hobbyists  for hobbyists - were not talkin statutory rights are we ?and for the guys who do administer these things if that makes their life easier then that's the way it is right ?


2.  Public Group buys option 
the first Come first served  -  would this be as much of an issue  ? or a bigger issue ?-

I would presume it would be run in such a way as - members offered first spots and then opened to the public Or would it be a free for all ??

I could see myself feeling a little peeved if I had missed the boat and a load o non members were sailing in her !!

in terms of the Group  Buys I do think it should be part of the membership, for a number of reasons


1. exclusivity ( think facebook movie !!! )

2. strong motivation to join  the association

3. Credibility  -

GB's are free for anyone to organise - doesn't the fact that it is a member running it lend more credibility to the GB/Organisor  than if it is a a non-member running it ? 


these are just some ramblings of mine - whatever is decided will more than likely get my support - I am happy to be a (back seat) member either way and have my voice heard, I mean the work you guys have already put into the club/site/competition/group buys/tshirst ect. this year is awesome !!

there was also some mention about adding a percentage for the benefit of the club, even as a paid up member I would not have an issue with having a (small) couple of quid (I'm not Ciderhead !!)thrown in on top of the cost for a group buy - for example the Irish Malt Cost what @ 8 quid for 10 KG ?
I would not have had an issue with throwing in a tenner into the pot - would still have been cheaper than Retail cost - I mean to say - anything I've gotten in a group buy has eventually made its way to me free of charge through the express without me ever having to cross the bridge.

I know that kind of extra few pence/cents  is not goin to make anyone a millionaire - I don't think we will be reading stories of a HomeBrewer in Kidare absconding to the Cayman islands next year in the Star
but surely it can only help with  stuff like the competition next year  

[JimmyM]

Well said NTB - I think the concensus is that people dont mind paying a little extra - and that is the point - we need to cover costs first - and then anything extra will go towards things like competitions etc.

Its just a matter of finding the best way to apply the charge - so its fair and not too much of a PITA from an admin point of view.

[Robrew]

I think €10 is a fair price to pay into the club, we're not all loaded like John

But back on topic, my feeling is that group buys should be available to members first and then made available to non members if we can't make up the numbers!

I support a mark up for non members.

I'm also in agreement with irish goats point on the fairness of the group buys, it would be great if there was a way of getting the info out to members, maybe a mailing list people could subscribe to or something? most people see there email quite often! Or possibly a text messaging system, but that's probably not cheap. And of course both would require a fair amount of admin!

I would agree with you Padraic, that 10 euro is reasonable and also that the group buys be made available to members first through emails as this seems most straight forward or other means of communication and then to non members, and also that a small charge to non members for group buys is another option.

[JimmyM]

Unfortunately its hard to address johnny no posts whohas paid his membership.
For instance - if you look at half my posts - im just slagging dempsey off - so there is no substance to them. So its difficult to go on post count.
Also there is the  issue of time signed up.

We could have a system where johnny hundreds of posts gets more notice than johnny no posts. But if we do a group buy of malt every 3 months johnny no posts will know roughly when the buy is anyway. And could still beat johnny hundreds of posts to the button.

Its a tough one - we need a novel way to penalise johnny no posts - doesnt necessarily have to be monetary.

But what about people that just genuinely dont like expressing them selves ("They express themselves well enough when theyre looking for cheap malt" i hear you say )
Or people who just dont have the expertise to comment on newby questions.
But I know what you are saying - there are people who will use this place as a source of cheap stuff - Full stop!

[JimmyM]

I think you edited your post since i read it - or i missed the last bit.

Yeah, rewarding participation is probably better than penalising non-participation.

[newToBrew]

doesn't address johnny no posts who is in on every group buy.

Is there many of them ?

If you were doing a mailing list to members - could you have some kinda algorithm say :
For Each registered member ()
     if Last Log in > 3 months AND number of posts , 20
      Do not Send GB invite ?

I dunno - that's kinda a hard one to capture

half my posts - im just slagging dempsey off

thats funny !!!

but in general - the guys on the GBs - kinda known to everyone at the moment right ?
i mean you can probably tell the Bargain lurker from the Shy guy right ?  and also if there was a post restriction thingy - you can tell who the flamer/lurker or poster for the sake of it-or is ?  (whatever the name is that those crazy kids use these days for it ) right ?

If you had a loose kinda set of rules  - you could drop some -one based on them for more prominent members of it was over subscribed  ?

Maybe a discount for everyone who has organised a group buy, written an article, organised a meet, etc to encourage better participation?

not sure on that one -  One of the things i enjoy about this club is the fact that I am a non organizing member  ( I have had a fear of asking for access to those internal places for fear of the jobs tube might send my way !!)

I guess what I am saying is it is nice to be a part of something that I am not actually responsible for if you get me - ( like my rant on software in a previous post )

I have enough actual responsibilities that this hobby is like therapy in that I can dip in - dip out do a brew - leave a brew - no pressure.

Like I said earlier - I have no proiblem throwin in an extra few bob on a group buy..... but ..  I don't know how I would feel about that if it was used to subsidised the payment of some other dude who had organized a group buy in the past, maybe if a little was used to subsidize the main players in the GB it was being used for ?

oh wait .......

Maybe a discount for everyone who has ..... organised a meet

I did (help) organise the first South East HB meet up

scratch everything I said !! YES discounts on every Group Buy for those guys !!   -I'm IN 

[Ciderhead]

Ciderhead is loaded so he would say 20 - I think 10 is the obvious number to start off.

Cheeky bolix, you owe me 11.20, I'll be chasing you for the 20c now

10 for Membership
10 to participate in Group Buys

[rukkus]

To me this place is more about chatting to like minded people about brewing, its more about community. Group buys are great dont get me wrong.

Personally i dont like the idea of potentially splitting the community or alienating people. As soon as people start being pushed away more people leave and someone else starts up another site somewhere else eventually..... Isnt that where this site came from.

[Will_D]

Right then here's my take:

1. Just because a member is new he shouldn't be excluded from the first group buy. If he turns out to be a chancer then we deal with that down the line. We were all new mebers at the beginning, remember?

2. Chancers, wasters and late payers or "Tub house flooders" can be blacklisted (privately).

3. Membership at €10 pa gives you the right to vote, and be privy to early group buy announcements.

4. As already we have Public/Private group buys: Leave these alone. Public goes out to all ( but with a members getting a heads up ) Private goes out to members only and only goes public if we want "Johny 1 mail, 1 Group Buy" to pump up the numbers. "Stealth buys" go out (via PM) to the architects and other Active members ( organised a GB, Hosted meets, give TOG brewdays ) to reward their hardwork.

Marketing Oportunities:

Printed Clothing/Merchandise:

Can now be updated to reflect "Member", "Architect" or even "Master Brewer"

I would also like "Master Baker" for my "Beer bread"

And for the wa*k**s on the forum Master Ba***