Group buys vs members

[rukkus]

I also dont think we should exclude people that dont post alot. People get busy and have lives out of here. Some people also just like to browse. I dont see anything wrong with that. They dont do any harm to those that do post alot.

[rukkus]

I dont see a problem with people only being interested in group buys. As long as they pay on time etc then thats what they want from the site. Again as long as they are not holding things up they arent harming anyone so whats the big deal. There are plenty of people who do like to post here, thats easily seen by the number of posts.

I agree on what you say about messers, a simple t&c sorts that out. Violate the t&cs and u are out.

[rukkus]

If they are watching the site enough to get in there first then they should be able to order.

I chat to people here because i enjoy it, i learn new things and hope to help others not repeat my mistakes. I've met new people i wouldnt have met had i not been posting. Why should i be at the front of a queue for that?

[rukkus]

With that logic only people that have organised a group buy should be able to be in them.

[rukkus]

I suppose how do you classify people that only see us as a cheap shop and why?

Plus if someone is into brewing and getting a bargin is that a bad thing for the club?

[Will_D]

Right then here's my take:

1. Just because a member is new he shouldn't be excluded from the first group buy. If he turns out to be a chancer then we deal with that down the line. We were all new mebers at the beginning, remember?

2. Chancers, wasters and late payers or "Tub house flooders" can be blacklisted (privately).

3. Membership at €10 pa gives you the right to vote, and be privy to early group buy announcements.

4. As already we have Public/Private group buys: Leave these alone. Public goes out to all ( but with a members getting a heads up ) Private goes out to members only and only goes public if we want "Johny 1 mail, 1 Group Buy" to pump up the numbers. "Stealth buys" go out (via PM) to the architects and other Active members ( organised a GB, Hosted meets, give TOG brewdays ) to reward their hardwork.

Marketing Oportunities:

Printed Clothing/Merchandise:

Can now be updated to reflect "Member", "Architect" or even "Master Brewer"

I would also like "Master Baker" for my "Beer bread"

And for the wa*k**s on the forum Master Ba***

Has anyone actually read this post??

[DEMPSEY]

Will's points are good,the private group buys are by way of invitation,where as the public group buy section is the place people can introduce new members to the system and how it works.

[Spud395]

Ah come off it, €10 a year that works out at 19c a week

[newToBrew]

maybe you guys see things differntly - i have a limited imagination and tend to think in small ways .. so forgive me

q.  are/have these so called bargain hunters been an issue on group buys ?
q. are you looking ahead as the site/club grows and anticiapating this issue ?

I guess I can see how the genuine dudes may feel a little but peeved by some dude just flinging their name down on the buys and never actually interacting in other ways

there seems to be 2 schools of thought here with varying degrees in both directions

1. members only group buys
  --- with/without valuble contributions

2. public group buys
--- with/without valuble contributions

and the question.... whats a valuble contribution  ??

tbh - i would not consider myself to be a valuble contributor - i post a bit -read every day - but apart from throwing out my opinions/inane ramblings  i'm nothing more than a pest in need

depending on your vision for the future - I would say

make it simple....

register on the site - chat with dudes / dudettes

become a member - pay your dues to participate in the wares - how you administer rungs on the ladder of a group buy is another conversation 

like rukkus says - even if you only joined up for the group buys are you not lending weight to the power behind those ? even if you don't post that often ?

there are examples of sites that I have been on - non brewing that require you to have a certain amount of posts before you can do stuff - the problem was for me I hadn't much to say !! 

for now apply the KISS approach ( keep it simple stupid )
if you find you need to fine grain it further in a few months then re address it

wills points are good - dunno do I agree with those stealth buys though - but then again - its down to how you weigh it up -how committed do you want members to be   ?

I'm not goin to be an architect - I won't volunteer officially as a stewart for the competition on the off chance I dont get up -( would not like to let people down)

can't ever think of anything I'm gonna come across that would spur a group buy

but if there  was a "stealth buy" on something fancy & I had a few bob to spare ....

[newToBrew]

here's a half arsed  after thought - if you wanted to have real participation....

Group Buys at a "Regional" Club/chapter  level - with each club/chapter  allocated a certain quota ?

- also as an aside - I think having beer on tap in the house is dangerous  .. but man its such a novelty

.. I really should not be left within reach of one .. that and a laptop are a bad combination  - not as bad as a power tool though

[Ciderhead]

One thing we are all missing here is that the commercial suppliers of grain, hops, kegs etc are really not happy about our activities. Who can blame them we are depriving them of income!

We are facilitating significant commercial advantage by organising group buys and it has all been free.

All commentators to this post please advise what you have spent, and what you would have spent if you had to use retail operations, then ask yourself is €10 too expensive to allow you to qualify for that.

Tube has been the outstanding member in facilitating these group purchases, acting as a purchaser, warehouse and organising deliveries.

The problem is that nobody else in my books shows his ability or capability.
Without him there would have been no kegs, grain or hop buys, our three largest consumables.

Take him out of the picture and we have....?

I see other organisations like Beoir charging €10, and we offer twice as much support and information for homebrewers and yet some of you still believe it should be free

Involvement in only one of the group buys would have saved you €10.

We haven't even touched on the goodwill and cost of those that facilitated your delivery.

I think its great that we are having this debate but as before I feel its better that we charge 10 for site access and 10 for group buys!

[newToBrew]

We are facilitating significant commercial advantage by organising group buys and it has all been free.

you are indeed and I would be of the thought that the bigger the buying power of the club the more room their is for better deals when purchasing
or in the grand scheme of things when it comes to purchasing is it that much of a big  deal for the sellers ? I'm thinking in terms of say NHBC buying in a few tonnes of grain ervery 3 - 4 months compared to Diagio and what not
so maybe thats a moot point from that perspective ?
But I would imagine if you are going to these suppliers saying - I can take 2 tonne - whats the price you could get a better deal than saying I want 1/2 a tonne

I know you were not looking at it from that angle - but anyway  - does that make sense ?

All commentators to this post please advise what you have spent, and what you would have spent if you had to use retail operations, then ask yourself is €10 too expensive to allow you to qualify for that.

I've spent enough to say to myself that I have saved enough too !!  - A tenner is a worhwhile investment !!

Tube has been the outstanding member in facilitating these group purchases, acting as a purchaser, warehouse and organising deliveries.

+1 on that the man Rocks !!!

The problem is that nobody else in my books shows his ability or capability.
Without him there would have been no kegs, grain or hop buys, our three largest consumables.

Take him out of the picture and we have....?

yes our Bolivian Dictator is Da Man !!

I see other organisations like Beoir charging €10, and we offer twice as much support and information for homebrewers and yet some of you still believe it should be free Embarrassed

the support and info I have gotten from here has been fantastic - otherwise I would have a pile of equipment and probably be paralysed by the options available with no idea which to choose....
I did throw my tenner into the Beoir hat - simply as way of providing support and saying thanks because prior to this club launching it was where I  got all my info
and it was simply for that purpose - I mean I was not expecting or looking for anything more for my tenner - I condsidered it a voluntary donation to help keep the thing going. Beoir did not force me to pay it
and I could have continued to get the info and support from them even if I had not paid ( I probably should note that when I say "them" I am acutley aware that "them" is "us/ye/you" )

Involvement in only one of the group buys would have saved you €10.

I have said that myself

We haven't even touched on the goodwill and cost of those that facilitated your delivery.

The Express is another amazing example of the Organisation power of the Club - I was explaining this to a guy recently and he could not get over how it works
personally I love that aspect of it - as I've said - anything I have purchased through the club has made its way to me without me having to leave the Town
which for a guy like me who doesn't travel much is fantastic, and I love the fact that whatever it is - equipment - ingredients has meandered through numerous counties, had sleepovers in other dudes sheds  to end up  in  my hands through nothing more than the help

and goodwill of a bunch of people - most of which I have never even met in person !!!

I think its great that we are having this debate but as before I feel its better that we charge 10 for site access and 10 for group buys!

..... here is the rub .......

charging a tenner for site access - I'm not sure that's a good idea -

yes our Bolivian Dictator Is the Central Windstorm behind all of this  and without whom we would not be even having this conversation
yes I have saved loads of money on Equipment and ingredients
yes I have saved valuable time and money through the Express
yes I have gained a lot of knowledge and (I would like to think) have made some buddies through the site/club


but..........

  If I stumbled across this site now as a complete newbie and before I could even say hello in the introductions section - I was required to throw in a tenner
I dunno ... I'd probably more than likely head off to some of the free forums for information   - I dunno who they are - jims ? Boeir ? some of the American/Aussie  ones ?
and because of that I may not ever know what I missing out on  and then the club itself has lost a potential member who may have contributed loads over time in terms of camaraderie - organisation and what not
( this is the hypothetical me - I'm not organised at all)

I guess what I am saying is charging a tenner for site access could create the wrong perception and turn people away ? - It is  almost like selling the Club as a service 


Charging a tenner for Group Buys  - you mean to qualify for all group buys - you need to throw in an annual tenner ?
yes I agree - Tenner Group Membership Allows you to participate in and organise group Buys within the Club, which in turn gives you, the member, access to club facilities  -the forum,  the express, the experience of others ,  -( probably the Club account for payment?) ect. ect.

Also throwing a euro or two on top of the cost for each participant is not a bad idea  - participants still get a great deal - the clubs runs another successful group buy and tots up a few coffers for facilitating it - which in turn goes back into the club and benefits members in some way in the future  - I could not believe that any member would begrudge the club a couple of euros on each GB 

you could always leave the organizer of a GB  exempt from the Club facilitation fee - and also open the GB to non members in the unlikely event the G.B. List be under subscribed ? 

in which case the Facilitation fee could be higher than that of a members GB fee

I guess my opinion is that of an end user/ member  really - a consumer I suppose  - and i know you guys who are doing the actual organisation come at it from a different angle, isn't the idea to have a good crack with it and not take things too seriously, and generally swell the ranks of the club and promote the hobby ?
 

hey ! Get Back to Work 

.. ... oops - I'm caught 

[Fal]

Jaysus spend a few days working overtime and you miss out on all interesting posts. Here's my two cents...

The one thing no-one has brought up is what about those who don't live near a regional chapter/club. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who live's outside of a major population area. While sites like this and Beoir are invaluable sources of information, contributing to the organisation of group buys, competitions and clubs is probably not an option to me (and maybe others) by pure physical location.

I agree with newToBrew comments about being a back seat member, I'd happily pay a tenner for the info I've received from this people on this site and when they were on Beoir alike. But I'd feel uncomfortable if I had to constantly post just to prove my membership.

[Eoin]

What about a 10% discount if you slag off Dempsey or The Tubster in 10 posts?

I'd say outline the "problems" with these fly-by-nights in one post and that might make it easier to define if it really is a problem in the scale of things.

[Taf]

I think €10 for the group buys is fair enough, but not just to access the site. I am actively trying to encourage people to sign up to the site the whole time, but you are not going to get many new members to the general site if they have to pay to get in. Although the group buy part is an important part of the site, it's not everything to everyone and the site shouldn't just be about group buys, although part of it could be. I don't see the general site growing if you start charging for that.